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more messages to non-resigning players

Public forum discussion.

General

#1 · Tim Shih

16 May 2004

Let me share a message with those players who do not resign under 100% hopeless game situations.

First, this stubbornness reminds me of an elderly lady (or man) who tries to defy the aging process, by putting a great amount of make-up on her face and by talking about age-related issues whenever she opens her mouth.

Aging is a natural process; everybody on earth will age; one hundred years from today, none of LG players will still walk and kick. So, why not accept it courageously and graciously? Similarly, losing is a natural process, albeit unpleasant. Every player on LG cannot possibly win every game. Losing is the mother of winning. So, why not accept it courageously and graciously?

Second, if I have lost to a player 99 times in the past, it is not a big deal. The race has not ended yet, as long as I am still alive and healthy. All I need to do is to try to defeat him at the 100th time. Then the 100th victory may weigh as heavily as the previous 99 times. Why so? It is because all the events in our life, including the improvement of our game skills/strengths, are dynamic, and change with time constantly. The current record is much important than the past ones.

Third, is it possible that some may hate to see their ratings drop from 1523 to 1505 or from 5 kyu to 6 kyu? If they do, then, sorry, my fellow players, it is just a matter of time. Their ratings will drop eventually anyway, REGARDLESS, after one month or so.

Fourth, these players do not want to resign, which suggests that to them it is UNpleasant to lose, which further suggests that to them it is PLEASANT to win. If so, why not extrapolate their own feelings to their opponents’ feelings? Aren’t their opponents going to feel great when they are informed of the victories? Therefore, isn’t it plainly nice to let others feel happy once in a while?

Finally, lost games to us are like bad memories. Don’t we like to shake them off as quickly as possible and start anew immediately? Why do we purposely let our lost games linger around in our heads to hound us?

#2 · na_wspak

16 May 2004

about final thought i think its sometimes/often good to remember our lost games to prevent us from repeating the same mistakes (losing a game without making any mistake is pretty rare and on a bigger boards almost imposible). i mean the more games u analise/watch the more patterns/board positions u keep in mind and the more patterns/board positions u keep in mind the less games u lose.

#3 · Foul Ole Ron

16 May 2004

Both of you may be overestimating some of the people you're talking about... try playing a Go game against HOT_SYNC_KAREN (if you've never played Go, visit an introduction site like http://playgo.to/interactive/ - that's enough to win), and when you're ahead, try talking some sense into her (him?).

It's unbelievable, but I've been meeting her in tournaments for about 2 years now...

#4 · Jupp

16 May 2004

Marc, enter the name in Google. ;)

#5 · Foul Ole Ron

16 May 2004

I'm trying, but all I get are LG game results...

#6 · Tim Shih

16 May 2004

Marc, yes, I did take a look at Karen’s games. Amazing, isn’t it? And yes, I have played Go games, and got excited simply by hearing the sound produced by stones hitting the boards (we did not use to have this fancy Internet stuff).

My messages are referred to more experienced players in Go or in Hex. It is positive that these players know that their games are 99.99% hopeless. Yet they let the games freeze there as if they are thinking the next moves.

#7 · orygun

16 May 2004

On the topic of HOT_SYNC_KAREN, is there any way to specify players in the system that you do not ever want games against?

#8 · BuilderQ

16 May 2004

Who decides if a game is hopeless? Maybe your opponents do not realize that they have 'no' chance, or maybe you do not see that they do have a chance.

There cannot be any rule forcing players to resign before they decide to.

#9 · oniscoid

16 May 2004

BuilderQ said "Who decides if a game is hopeless?"

regarding go (which is the game in question) and the way it is programmed on LG (as opposed to Yahoo), in most games it becomes obvious who the winner is long before all possible plays have been made - it requires no more than the ability to count up to 181

additionally, in most games a position is reached where it is self-evidently impossible for either player to improve their score - nevertheless one (or both) players can continue to place stones on the board which will either not affect their score or will decrease it - this can go on for hundreds of moves on a full size board

the most likely reason why someone might want to do this is that on LG the play is so slow that there is the possibility that one's opponent will die before the game is finished, and thus it may be possible to win a lost game because the opponent defaults on time

#10 · tony

16 May 2004

is this not a game site where people play games so what if they are bad at least they are trying so lighten up

#11 · oniscoid

17 May 2004

tony said "so what if they are bad"

there is a difference between bad play and bad manners - it is not a question of ability, but of respect towards one's opponent

#12 · safe

17 May 2004

I dissagree.

I have a heck of a lot of fun playing variations maybe it is not a Sure Win however,say to grand masters play a game a ...and the one has severely out positioned the other and out played him an is severely up on points,Only a Blunder will now prevail. now the game is fairly defined and in 26 moves the entire game was played and lost.

how ever, one of the grand masters plays me,i enjoy the game yet i know How to play in such a manner as to infuriate the guy no easy win with me,i play my pieces well enough,no repeated moves,just play my pieces well...clearly when i lose on my 76th move it is a type of win for me also...I bet hes never seen the variation nor played it out that far...and yet if he makes any mistake by not playing well indeed i will turn the tables and turn the tide... no i am not looking for a Blunder nor am i just pushing pieces accross the board.

#13 · Tim Shih

17 May 2004

Hi, BuilderQ, surely, we cannot, and perhaps should not, force any players to resign. That is exactly why some players, including myself, helplessly vent our annoyance in this forum. We simply must be patient, and become saints. We are not talking about rules here. Instead, we are talking about etiquette.

When I drive on freeways, by rules I can steadfastly drive in my lane at a constant speed. If other drivers must enter from, or exit to, the city roads, I do not need to yield to them at all. As a result, they are greatly inconvenienced. Hey, but tough luck, rules do not say that I must yield, right?

We society members like to be nice, in addition, to be just rigid law-abiding citizens.

Hi, Tony, the forum is a place to lighten up, indeed. But board games involve other players. Whenever others are involved, be it on the boards, in the trains, on the roads, in the libraries, etc., individualism should be exercised with care. A little thoughtfulness is usually nice.

And Oniscoid, your comment about hoping the opponents may die may be a joke, but there is a slight hint of truth in it. We can purposely drag a game for such a long time that our opponents may actually forget what is going on. And so they carelessly place a wrong move at a wrong spot. Then we can jump up and down, yeeees, I won, I won.

When I was a kid, I often played Chinese chess with my brother. Sometimes when I was losing a game, I would start singing songs, humming and whistling, hoping to distract my brother. Hey, sometimes it did work!

#14 · oniscoid

17 May 2004

in at least one of the games referred to, there isn't even the possibility of playing a bad move, it's merely a matter of remembering to log in to LG and pass every 36 hours for the next few weeks/months/years, until HOT_SYNC_KAREN finally runs out of legal moves

#15 · xed_over

17 May 2004

have you ever played against SpruceGo (a Symbian/Nokia app)?

It plays a lot like HOT_SYNC_KAREN. It will continue to make moves until there are no more legal moves available to play.

maybe H_S_K is not really a person at all, but just a bot for SpruceGo :)

#16 · oniscoid

17 May 2004

a bot... of course, yes - that makes excellent sense, Dennis

so any LG go player weaker than 7 kyu who never resigns and doesn't contribute meaningfully to the forum is under suspicion :)

#17 · Tim Shih

17 May 2004

Yuck, if I have to play with a Go program that someone wrote and is trying to test its viability or to debug, that will be very sad. You might as well come and shoot me.

#18 · Andres Villasante

17 May 2004

Many times, in life, we are faced with seemingly unwinnable situations: situations in which it seems that all is lost, that there is no way out, or no way in. Sometimes, when we are faced with situations like this, it is the Little Golem Universe’s way of forcing us to learn to "let go", to do without something we thought we needed, to find new and greater ways of reaching peace and contentment. Sometimes, losing is only the road to becoming a wiser, deeper, more beautiful human being.

On the other hand, there are other times, it seems, when the specter of defeat is not so much an invitation to outgrow illusions, as it is a stimulus to outgrow the limitations which have placed victory out of reach. As the old saying goes, "Necessity is the mother of invention", and it is often out of the most dire threats and circumstances that the greatest insights and achievements are attained.

Although many today, in the New Age, have reemphasized the importance of the human heart relative to the human mind - myself among them, for human brilliance, devoid of heart, is one of our world’s deadliest afflictions - there can be no doubt that human intelligence and ingenuity still do have tremendous value to us, and ought to be cherished as among our most precious assets.

Of course, it is not always clear what "intelligence" is, exactly; and "brilliance" remains even more of a mystery. Though some inevitably see it as the product of a "superior", more perfectly-structured brain, built for rational thinking - the result of a biologically inherited endowment, which has, perhaps, been sharpened by education - I think it is fair to say that the brilliant answer that flashes, like a match in the night, when all seems lost, is just as much a product of the human will - the desire to live, the desire to triumph, the desire to help - that propels the mind beyond its ordinary limits, into the realm of virtuosity, or just exceptional cleverness. Thomas Edison certainly believed that will was a component of intelligence. In fact, he is credited with having said: "Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration." Please, players do not resign reading this essay to the End.

On the other hand, Thomas Edison also demonstrated the critical importance of inspiration in raising the mind to its highest level. He is said to have practiced relaxation techniques while in the midst of his inventing, seeking to arrive at the state between sleeping and waking (the hypnagogic state) in which the fertility of the human mind is said to be elevated. (He would sit in a chair, holding ball bearings in his hands, until he became so relaxed that the bearings fell from his grip, awakening him. He would then start over again, drifting constantly towards sleep, but never allowing himself to go completely under.) What happened while Edison was in this curious state? He must have been put in touch with that inner problem-solver that resides in all of us, the subconscious mind, that somehow is able to access dimensions of reality that our conscious mind just can’t seem to enter. (It is as though the conscious mind were a land creature, and the subconscious mind were a fish of the sea, able to move freely and easily in a completely different medium.) Or perhaps Edison, by quieting himself and opening a door in his mind, opened himself up to some benevolent angel, who came from beyond. Who really knows how to define or understand "inspiration"?

Besides will, and the mysterious angel, or "ghost in the machine", that sometimes comes to us with an answer if we open a door for it, there is the imagination, which must also be counted as a vital component of "intelligence." Reason, without the ability to dream (sometimes wildly), without the ability to fantasize and to be creative, often comes upon a chasm which it cannot cross. This is the moment when the ability to see reality in other ways, to re-conceptualize the dilemma, to allow visions to run free in one’s head, becomes the key to taking the next step. Whether this ability is called "thinking outside the box", or "shifting consciousness", or "stepping back to gain a new perspective", or just "leaving reality behind" for a moment to play with new ideas, there can be no doubt that this creative gift, this creative power, is sometimes needed to empower our reason with the something extra that it needs to prevail.

Certainly, it is also essential to believe that there is an answer. The individual who approaches a seemingly impossible dilemma with the belief that there is a solution - that there is, in fact, a solution to every problem - will have the morale, the conviction, and the faith, to persevere in his search for that answer; while he who believes that the situation is hopeless, will succumb, either giving up, or dooming himself with a mediocre answer.

One more thing I wish to say, before getting into the heart of this article, is that the "intelligence" I am talking about is not always obvious to the casual observer, or easy to measure, or "predict". Many times, it appears just at the moment that it is needed, like a whale rising up suddenly from the sea in which it has been hidden all along. I have seen students in Special Education programs, for example, and people considered unintelligent, and even despised, by others, display uncommon intelligence and problem-solving abilities, that had nothing to do with their "measured intellectual capacity." In many ways, they had been "trained" to see themselves as inferior, and they also had littleGolem patience for, or interest in, formal educational environments which sought to judge them and mold them in ways they did not care to be molded. But in moments of forgetting the limitations which they had been taught they had, and in moments of forgetting to doubt themselves, they would suddenly erupt with signs of great intelligence - the power of reason, alloyed with passion, will, and imagination. All of which goes to show that to solve a problem, you must not only believe that there is an answer, you must also believe that you, yourself, through your own efforts or the grace of God, can find it.

It is my hope, by means of them, to provide renewed support to the idea that our minds are equal to the challenge of any problem that can possibly be thrown at them. Believe it! Don’t give up! Think! There’s always an answer!

YYLZZ

#19 · ypercube

17 May 2004

Tim Slih wrote :

"Yuck, if I have to play with a Go program that someone wrote and is trying to test its viability or to debug, that will be very sad. You might as well come and shoot me."

ypercube adds :

Yuck, if I have to discuss with a program that someone wrote and is trying to test its viability or to debug, that will be very sad. You might as well come and shoot me.

#20 · oniscoid

17 May 2004

thank you YYLZZ for those gentle words of wisdom, reminding us that that no mysteries are sacrosanct, no limits unquestionable, the unknown will yield to the ingenious mind etc

though some might wonder whether this expresses an extropian optimism which differs drastically from the optimism to be found in religious faith

#21 · Foul Ole Ron

17 May 2004

Tim,

You're right, HSK is an exception. OTOH, if I'd resign every time I know a game is hopeless, I'd give up playing dan players in tournaments after 5 moves. The nice thing about LG is that you get the chance to play high-ranked players, and learn from them.

I'd say, you should give up if the game isn't any fun anymore and/or when you don't feel you can learn anything more from the continuation of the game. As long as there are interesting positions on the board, I play on, even if I'm behind.

BTW, the first "stone hitting a board" I heard was simulated by the IgoWin program - pretty hard to find live opponents those days (well, 2 years ago) :)

#22 · oniscoid

17 May 2004

Marc Oldenhof said "You're right, HSK is an exception"

strictly speaking that isn't true - nirvana exhibits similar behaviour, continuing to play until no legal moves remain, even tho if his/her/its opponent continues to pass it is impossible for the game result to be changed

some of the posts above confuse 2 different situations when playing go -

1) playing long after the natural end of the game has been reached

this makes makes no more sense than continuing a game of chess after the king has been checkmated, and this is what some of the above posts are complaining about - it stems from either a lack of understanding of or an obliviousness towards the rules and purpose of the game

2) playing until one reaches the natural end of the game

the natural end of the game is usually self-evident (let's leave it at that for the moment, otherwise we'll get distracted into abstruse disussions of variations of the superko rule etc which are better handled in the go forum)

there comes a point in the game when it is possible to read out all the remaining sequences, though not necessarily in the correct order - if the order in which the sequences are played does not affect the result, then the result is known before the natural end of the game is reached

one of the best measures of someone's strength is how early they can accurately read out the remaining sequences in the game (and how early they resign a lost position in an even game) - professionals will often resign if they are behind by 10 points (or less) as they enter the end game (to avoid the embarrassment of losing by what, for them, is an unacceptably large amount), whereas beginners will happily play out all the neutral points even tho they are behind by 100 points (or more)

if the opponents are very unevenly matched and the stronger player is a long way ahead, then it is polite for the stronger player to patiently accept that the weaker player will want to continue playing even tho the stronger player can see that the result is not in doubt - there will still be plays that the weaker player is unable to read out and will want to investigate - and it is reasonable that they should

in my youth, in my arrogance, if playing a much weaker player, i would sometimes ask my opponent before the game started to think of a number between 1 and 100, and then try and win by that same number of points without my opponent realising what my game plan was - this would ensure that the game was of interest to me until the very last move - nowadays i just try and ensure that all my groups are alive, and hope to pick up a couple of extra points in the endgame :)

#23 · Tim Shih

17 May 2004

Insightful and interesting comments, YYLZZ, thank you.

Very well explained, representing precisely what I meant, but was unable to clarify myself.

Will add on my two cents later. Good day. :)

#24 · Tim Shih

17 May 2004

Oh, in my previous message, I meant to say that it was Oniscoid who precisely explained what I meant to share with you fellow players.

YYLZZ's remark is beautifully and insightfully stated. But YYLZZZ, you may be talking about a different subject, which interests me greatly, too. In our current subject, you sound as if some of the winning players do not allow their opponents to think carefully to discover a solution.

Inquisitive minds dwell in potentially interesting problems, not in problems like 2 + 3 = 5, gee, why not equal to 6?

Also, you stated that there is always a solution/answer.

Not necessarily so in Hex games. :) In a given Hex game, one player must win, and the other must lose. No draw is possible. So, at 23rd move, red player is stuck, and losing. He believes in your advice, ponders day and night, and has finally discovered a winning move. Great.

By the same token, at 24th move, it is now blue player's turn to be stuck, and losing. But he also believes in your advice, ponders day and night, and has finally identified a solution.

Eventually, however, at 47th move, or 74th move, or a certain juncture, there is NO solution for one of the players. He is doomed. That is it.

It is this juncture that I am talking about. And most likely, these losing non-resigning players know about the fate of their games, too. But they simply will not resign. They simply ignore the existence of the RESIGN button.

If we players think that it is acceptable to drag on forever when we choose to, then what is the resign button for? :)

When the game situation remains slightly muddy, confusing, and unclear, just SLIGHTLY, I would encourage any player to fight on. DO NOT resign prematurely. I do not think that I am an impatient person.

#25 · Tim Shih

17 May 2004

Marc said,

"I'd say, you should give up if the game isn't any fun anymore and/or when you don't feel you can learn anything more from the continuation of the game."

This statement strikes a resonating chord in my heart. yes, I experienced some games, which I had to finish playing, but really preferred to go to your kitchen and do dishes for you.

#26 · Foul Ole Ron

17 May 2004

Now THAT sounds good - just give me your password and I'll take care of those those games for you :-)

#27 · Tim Shih

17 May 2004

Somehow I felt that there was an essential element that was missing in our discussions. While I was walking across the Univ of Maryland campus (beautiful day, some students finished their final exams, wandering and lying around on the green lawns, relaxing, enjoying the freedom from the course loads), it dawned upon me.

YYLZZ inspired us with Thomas Edison as one of his examples. And I will not question the possibility that these non-resigning players possess Edison's perseverance and intelligence. We will assume they do.

Did Edison get us involved in his meditation or his relaxation process? Did Edison get us involved in his laborious lab experiments? No, he did not.

Since he did not, he could do whatever he wanted. He could ponder day and night why 2 + 3 = 5.

The key difference between our game playing at LG and Edison's habits of exercising his mind is: other players are involved here.

#28 · Nick Wedd

17 May 2004

I wonder if there are people who have not realised that these are games of skill, with the outcome influenced by the players' moves. Look at H_S_K's chess games, and you may believe me. This is not necessarily stupid of them: perhaps they have played in a casino, where it matters not at all whather you bet on 19 or on 4, but there are plenty of people betting, and having fun.

#29 · Nirvana

21 May 2004

There are some sites where resigning is not accepted - people will not play with you if you do! (I play on two) Also there are some games where you think you have lost but it is possible if the opposing player makes a mistake to turn the game around and either win or draw. I will happily play any game regardles of what it is, always happy to try those that are new to me. To those on this site who are showing me how to play some 'Go' thank you - I appreciate your patience!

#30 · Andres Villasante

21 May 2004

Rather than surrender, and give in to a hopeless situation, or resign himself to a brave, but inevitable death, Maybe the LittleGolem Hex/Chess Player both found a solution - created a solution - on another mental plane - a plane that is always there, but which will only be discovered by those who have the passion and desire to reach it.Reality was not superseded, or escaped, but better results were, nonetheless, attained from reality than had previously been thought possible. Again, logic, stymied, must turn to the imagination for a solution; thought must rise to another level, driven by the will to find an answer that does not appear to be there. It reinforces the idea that there is a solution to virtually every problem that exists, even to a problem which has defied solution for many years! It reinforces the idea that imagination - a creative, almost artistic aspect of the soul, given room to express itself - may often play a crucial role in reaching an answer that pure reason, without that freedom, may fail to attain. It also indicates the crucial nature of foresight, in devising an intelligent solution: for, in more than one instance, shows, once more, the vital role sometimes played by the imagination in expanding the powers of "intelligence"; as it also shows us the importance of maintaining a healthy balance of urgency and calmness when faced with pressing challenges - enough urgency to drive one past the normal limits of the mind; enough calmness to let the mind work (for too much fear most always shuts the mind down). Courage. Courage? Yes, courage! Without courage, one’s mind may be paralyzed by fear. Like the zebra who, outrun by the lion, reaches the stage of giving up, and suddenly freezes into inertness, just lying down to be devoured, one may lose the ability to use one’s mind at moments of extreme stress. Courage is the inner fire that keeps the mind alive, and fighting, when the world outside is cold with hopelessness. Courage is what lets thoughts flow, when everything else is frozen and still. Courage is also what makes some solutions possible, that other people would not dare to take - and when no tame answer exists, courage may be the only way to reach any answer. In the same way, patience, stamina, the ability to sacrifice, and other attributes, may make some solutions possible for those individuals who possess those attributes, while other people, without those attributes, may find themselves stranded in situations from which they cannot escape. After the chess game is over all the pieces go back to the box. Again, this example shows the importance of alloying logic with imagination, and of preserving the ability to look at old positions from new angles. In this case, we see that need inspires its own response. Necessary Defeats. Even so - though I have insisted, throughout this article, that there is almost always a solution to any problem which can arise - there must, indeed, sometimes occur challenges and setbacks for which there is no solution; challenges and setbacks beyond the power of intelligence, even with all of its diverse elements intact, to overcome. For Destiny sometimes intends for us to taste defeat. "Thank you, Great Spirit, for my victories," Chief Dan George said, in his part in Little Big Man. And, "Thank you for my defeats." For defeat is one of the great teachers of life, one of the great paths to wisdom, one of the great destroyers of illusion, and revealers of truth. Although we should fight for what we want, and use our intelligence to help us reach our objectives, we should also understand that defeat is a part of life, and we will all experience it at some time, now or later. When our turn does come to taste defeat, we should struggle to learn from it, not be broken by it; we should struggle to accept it and use it, rather than deny it or flee from it. We may find that our defeat, if we determine to learn the lessons that it has so generously and painfully brought to us, can fertilize us with new wisdom, and enrich the tool of our intelligence, so that we may win new battles in the future. At that moment, one’s brain, and all of its possibilities, may remain like a bud that cannot open, kept shut by the cold. The ability to detach. Sometimes, on the other hand, individuals may become so attached to a particular outcome, that they insist on attempting to attain something that really is impossible. - I have included this my own personal point of view, in this forum here, as one more example of how our human intelligence is able to work miracles on our behalf, if we can only establish the right mixture of emotions to liberate it.

Or, on the contrary, we may find that what we have been fighting for is not worthy of us, and turn our intelligence to new, more meaningful tasks. It may be possible to attain something very similar, or at least an optimal real-world result, by releasing some of one’s attachment to one’s original goal, and letting go of some of the things one wishes to retain or attain. Defeat sometimes comes into our life to remove the mask from the face of the Universe, and show us the beauty that our fear and our desire did not let us see. The key to this flexibility is the ability to detect what is the essence, and to give up parts of the periphery or form of one’s objectives, when that becomes necessary in order to save the essence.

Let the mind always be allied with heart. Let it never forget its place, never forget the deeper meaning of life, that goes far beyond what this world, in an era of blindness, calls "success."

Peace, Blessings, and True Success (as a Human Being), to All.

YYLZZ

#31 · Marius Halsor

27 May 2004

My experiences in this matters are entirely from Hex - I hardly know how to play GO at all (although I'm eager to learn! :-) )

First, let me say that I really don't mind if players do not resign - not on LG, anyway. If I know I'm gonna win, and how I'm gonna win, it takes me virtually no time to make my moves.

What occationally bugs me, are people who are delaying the start of a championship or the next round of a monthly cup with an obviously lost game, but I guess that's another issue.

In fact, in some cases I can see the reason why people delay games - although these reasons are not necessarily noble, they sure are legal. One reason can be to aviod falling out of the top10 before a championship starts, if being in the top10 would get you a place in the first league. Another reason could be that you know your opponent are about to win several other games, and thus want him to get a higher rating before resigning, giving yourself a smaller loss. I sometimes use some peoples aversions against resigning against them in a similar matter: If there is a game I know I have won, I might wait with that game until I see the outcome of other games, and then resign my lost games as fast as possible before continuing with the games I know I've won. I'd never do that if I was delaying a tournament, though.

However, I DO understand that some people get annoyed that their opponents won't resign. Just thought I'd share three games with you, all games that were won several moves before one party resigned. First, this is my game

against Tray. Here, I saw that I'd lose around move 63. However, it seemed complicated to me, and I thought I'd allow Tray a chance to make a mistake - which he didn't. Next here is my game

against czarek. Here, I know I've won at around move 53. However, I go into "automatic mode", and make a mistake at move 69 (should be k4, not k3), and czarek wins. I see nothing wrong, bad or annoying with either of these games. Then, there is this game

against fightman. If it's not obvious enough at move 65, then surely there can be no doubt after move 79.

So I simply have a question for those of you who'd like people to resign sooner: Do you think all these games should be resigned sooner, or just the last one? As I said, personally I really don't take the effort to even bother about those who won't resign...

#32 · Tim Shih

27 May 2004

Hi, Marius, in all the 3 games you posted, I personally would not have resigned, had I been one of the players. Oh, not at all. They are far far far from the junctures that I deem a player should resign.

Specifically, in Hex, I am referring to when ALL the stones are connected in the diamond shape (or bridged), and the players' ranking were in 15xx at that time.

I do not have had personal annoying experiences in Go or Chess at LG. But judging from the games posted, I will say that even a pro with 1000 dan cannot win the game. Yet the losing player continued to play.

#33 · Marius Halsor

27 May 2004

I notice that my links are linking to the middle of the games, due to a copy and paste error on my part. If anyone should be interested (yeah, sure...) then they should look at the move numbers indicated in the text. Sorry for the error.