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Little GolemMake your next move.

Computer Go program beats human professional in even match for the first time

Public forum discussion.

#2 · _syLph_

27 Jan 2016

Wow, just wow. That is insane o.o

#3 · Tom Ace

27 Jan 2016

Impressive.  I hope this leads to more interest in Hex, where programs are farther behind the top human players.

#4 · bennok

28 Jan 2016

We're lucky that Alpha Go isn't available for download: It would be the end of cheat-proof go playing on LG :)

#5 · temifar

28 Jan 2016

The hardware Alpha Go currently runs on is not something your average cheater has at home. We still probably have a couple of years before LG is dominated by 9p bots :)

#6 · mmKALLL

28 Jan 2016

Yeah, old news.

...Extremely impressive nonetheless! Google was right to acquire DeepMind, it seems!

#7 · Marius Halsor

28 Jan 2016

This seems really impressive. Even more so since the "core" is really designed so that it basically can learn ANY game, not just GO.

#9 · Paul Wiselius

29 Jan 2016

Christian, I hope they can explain to us why one move is better then the other ;-)

#11 · David J Bush

29 Jan 2016

In one of the videos Demis Hassabis, who was a prodigy chess player, says one thing they can't do yet is teach the computer to apply its knowledge to other areas besides games. But doubtless they are working on that.

#12 · mmKALLL

29 Jan 2016

Most likely the systems within AlphaGo are extremely specific to Go, based on how the whole neural network is focused on input from the board. No doubt DeepMind's advances in the field can have applications in other contexts as well, though.

#13 · Carroll

3 Feb 2016

In the article published in Nature, the authors say "The SL policy network p performed better in AlphaGo than the stronger RL policy network pp, presumably because humans select a diverse beam of promising moves, whereas RL optimizes for the single best move. However, the value function v(s) vp(s) derived from the stronger RL policy network performed better in AlphaGo than a value function vtheta(s) ~= vp^rho(s) derived from the SL policy network."

Does any MCTS guru here have an explanation of this strange sentence, what is asynchronous policy and value MCTS?

Is there any mention of the size of the neural network used for the deep learning (policy gradient reinforcement learning)? I read about 19 planes but the number of neurons per plane is not specified.

Winning 77% of games against CrazyStone on a single machine, how is then rank AlphaGo ranked?

#14 · Carroll

3 Feb 2016

Sorry last sentence wrong, it was with 4-stones handicap (to CrazyStone), keeping the komi to 7.5

#16 · _syLph_

12 Mar 2016

I read the paper now and the way I understood that strange sentence (no guarantee I understood it right though) was that the RL policy network filters more than necessary returning a smaller set of interesting moves than the SL policy network, so rather than just taking the moves into account that the RL policy network deems the best of the best one wants to look at a wider set of moves. I guess a wider search tree might be more effective than a narrow, deeper one for some reason. On the other hand the value function just has to be accurate to estimate a position well so in this case the reinforced one does a better job.

I think the paper is very interesting and definitely worth reading. Personally I'd have liked if they had been more elaborate on how exactly the features of a go position are used to make the value network evaluate. Filtering the interesting moves to narrow down the search tree isn't very new, but personally I'm very surprised that a value function that just works with simple features of a position actually estimates accurately. It kind of makes board size a really small issue as it erases the need to get a search tree deep enough to reach the end of the game.

#17 · mtbikesman

16 Mar 2016

I am waiting for a computer program to tell me how to hit on girls.  And not get dumped.

#18 · richyfourtytwo

17 Mar 2016

mtbikesman, I have no doubts computers will beat us humans in that area as well one day. But why would they tell you how to do it? ;-)

#19 · Paul Wiselius

20 Mar 2016

LOL! Most likely the first AND the last version will see to it that you get dumped. The first because of ignorance, the last because ...!

#20 · Carroll

21 Mar 2016

What will be the first signs that computers have taken the power?

I think that us littlegolemers as fighters should be the ones trying to defeat them.

Go programs are the most dangerous and should be eradicated because they are used to think out of the box, and concentrate on the big picture instead of trying to win local fights. Humans could be considered as a serious threat that must be taken care of.