Game 1742129 Shalev vs Daniel

I thought this was a very exciting game.  I was wondering if either you might wish to comment on it.

Okay, here are my comments.

The first few moves were standard, this is my new default opening. Daniel played 4. j11 instead of 4. i10, but that's normal for Daniel.

I thought 8.j2 was questionable: the door should maybe be left open for k2 instead of j2 in the future.

12. i5 was strong. I thought Daniel was doing pretty well at that point.

13. i4 probably looks like a weird move, but I played it as part of my policy of always extending from one liberty to three unless there's a good reason not to.

14. e6 seems weak. I'm not sure what that move is about.

15. g6 connects to the top, and it seems hard to disconnect it from the bottom. However, there's still a battle to be fought on the bottom side.

Daniel resigned two moves later, but I think that's too early. It seems possible to continue the game... maybe 18. g9?

I think very good play from shalev, 13 I4 removes any hope to use the blue stones on top and gives red almost certain win...

Maybe something like this would be "playable" for red: 12 D3, 13 B3, 14 D10...

But i've only looked 10 mins into this game and i'm no expert on 13x13... :)

Sorry, i wanted to say, "playable" for blue! Red seems to be winning, to be honest... maybe I1 shouldn't be swapped... :)

I've forgot to say that 5 L11 is risky and gives blue some chances. I think blue should have tried 6 E9 or 6 D3 or something similar.

Maybe Daniel was unfamiliar with the i1-j4 concept or he miscalculated, because that corner made his position miserable. i5 is hope-play, shalev had no intention of letting that corner go - he closes the deal with probably the best move in the position and surely the best of the game, i4. 14.e6 is the last nail in the coffin, but I don't blame Daniel as at that point he had nothing to do. On an optimistic day he could try shenanigans like 14. d10, but that is no fun to play.

Another shenanigan is 14 F8  , heh :)

My sincere thanks for shalev's comments, Bill for starting the thread, and lazy player for more commentary. Very interesting!

lazy, I don't see what F8 could possibly do

Lazy, I don't like 6. E9 and similar because of 7. j9. For this reason, I think 5. L11 was fine.

Arek, something like this maybe?

Shalev, 7 j9 leads to something like this and it doesn't seem disastrous, no?

Arek, sorry, you're right, F8 leads to absolutely nowhere... I had forgot L11... see this

damn, i did another error in the example i provided in my last comment, but i leave its correction as puzzle :)

Lazyplayer, I was thinking 9. i11. Maybe not disastrous, but white just gave away the corner, which I think is pretty valuable.

Shalev, what about this? anyway, i don't think 6 E9 is the only alternative to 6 J11...

lazyplayer, in response to 10. i6, I don't have anything immediately crushing, but I feel like I generally prefer black from that position. I might play 11. b10 (though I didn't try to calculate it).

I guess our intuitions disagree in regards to the corner, because I don't think white should be giving it up like that...

shalev, the fact nobody would consider that only makes it more fascinating for me, i like to disobey rules...

Shalev, how would you respond to 18.g9 ?

Bill, nice question, i think this is the solution, took me more than ten minutes to find it... (and i'm not yet 100% sure it works)

As I said, I think 18. g9 continues the game. It might even win for Daniel. I tried calculating for a bit and couldn't figure it out. I might try again when I have more time.

Lazyplayer, have you considered 20. f7?

???

doesn't this force a win like this?

Arek, how about 24. f12

the same I guess

Oh, I played 24.e12 but still the same ;)

Arek, what about this?

Shalev, idea is 21 D7 both against 20 F7 and 20 F8, but i agree it's very doubtful. When i wrote that msg it was late night, i had enough of looking at that game and wanted to go sleep...

Arek, how do you beat 22. f12?(f12 is a key move here, if it's played at the right time)

You're right, I payed not enough attention to details, but black wins:

1) 2)3)

Arek, no?

Ok I quit my show of terrible analysis. I wrongly assumed h10 was an ok move, but it wasn't so maybe even white wins...

I've taken another look at this, i take back my previous " solution"...

and i submit another attempt... :)

Lazy, and after 20. f8 ?

Bill, no problem?

Or this... all variations are really simple, shame on us for missing this easy 19 G8. Probably it's because near the end of the games, the geometric intuitions are no longer valid. One can connect to bottom by playing a move that is distant from it like G8.

Bill, the most complex i can find i this, and it seems a "clean" black win... i'm awaiting for your corrections ;)

everybody was shouting F12 earlier, so... show us this

broken link in previous message, correction http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,i1i1j4j11l11l10e9j2k2j3k3i5i4e6g6f11h10g9g8f12

Arek, there is a beautiful solution to that, but i leave it as exercise to you, shalev, bill!

To be honest, I also hadn't seen it to be before pasting the msg... so i get something beautiful by luck...

I also think that Black has to play such beautiful moves precisely because it's trying to win quickly!

And that is NEVER easy according to my experience...

so Arek, I would think 21.d11 22.f8 23.e7 24.e8 25c9

although this does not seem especially beautiful...

Bill, hmm...

Bill, ok, i tell you solution of that.

The most doubtful lines are this and this because they involv e to p-left...

Well, in conclusion i think Daniel resigned a won position. The stuff on top is stronger than it looks at first...

also I don't know how you play against this

example

Arek, i think that position is over. Maybe the error is precisely the i4 that we both praised earlier? This looks fine to me...

no, just h10 is bad. (yet to be proved...)

I agree with Arek. If Daniel wins the position, it's probably because h10 is bad.

Just a simple improvement. Seems easy for black

Arek, how do you respond to f2?

shalev, f6