Positional judgement | Game examples

Well, I think choices like g2 are good, unless they lose immediately, heheh.

I think black can afford to play f2 there. Well, actually black is probably losing overall, so I doubt I can win from that position against Arek or lazyplayer, but I think lines like this give black a decent chance (perhaps as good as he's going to get).

shalev, i think you're the most likely to win next tournament, all your modesty is very useful :)

No offence, but leela is the most likely, no doubt :P

I'm willing to play some games for training purpose starting from this position: https://littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=2019562&nmove=5.

Who is willing to play? :) Arek? Shalev? Daniel?

I think in that position, maybe the only chance for white is G7? What else there is? After after G7?

Arek, I think we human players always obsessed with spectacular tricks, but with leela, the only option is finding and playing the most principled choice.

After taking a look at Arek's game vs leela:

https://littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=2015384&nmove=12

https://littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=2019562&nmove=7

I would expect leela to play this vs g7:

http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,m1m1d5d10j9i4g7g3

So this is probably what we've to analyze to beat the bot. :)

Then maybe this: http://www.trmph.com/hex/board#13,m1m1d5d10j9i4g7g3c7

To me it doesn't look black is hopeless. In fact I would even dare to guess that black is winning here...

laz, in human play this pos I would say is 50%/50%. Problem is that with leela you need 60%/40% at the opening stage ;)

Arek, your games with leela are stuck? Feel free to ask, we'll try to help! :P

Game #3

Encouraged by your discussion, I would like to show another example:

This time I would like to understand who is ahead, and WHY. What factors would you take into account?

Link to the game: http://www.trmph.com/hex/game/lg-2000927

Force, white was probably slightly ahead because you had played nothing to help you connect to top. 13 j4 would be black win i guess. I've also doubts on 15 c3.

I would also recommend to not worry too much about early play because most games are decided later anyway.

force, according to my principles d10 is in conflict with bottom-right in a sense that black make attempts to connect bottom edge on both left and right which initially is useless.

On the other hand white has a difficult position because all the stones are in chaos. It's hard to put them all to use.

I would probably prefer to play black, but it's fairly bal;anced.

laz, my games with leela are both lost even though I doubt they are provably lost ;)

well, no, in fact 2019561 is clearly lost

Well, in 62, your stones are literally surrounded. d5 group is surrounded by white side and white stones. j9 group also surrounded by white side and stones. e7 is useless too because it's good neithr on top nor on bottom. I would say that the "original flaw" in 62 is e7. Not sure if it's even possible to recover from that against leela. Probably not. Leela only makes tiny errors.

It's like sacrificing a pawn with no compensation and then trying to recover against a chess program. Not possible. The only difference is that here we don't see pawns because it's all positional and more obscure. But it should not be that obscure for you ;)

23 g3 instead of 23 e4 also would have been better no? you would maybe get ladder escape on top.

i'm discussing 61, not 62, the one you said is provably lost. i don't know if it's provably loss but surely it looks terrible. :D

I had a plan for e4 and g3 but I miscalculated it. I think g3 is wrong so probably e4 is wrong too.

Game #4

This is probably question regarding more tactics than strategy, however I was a little bit lost here. White seems strong in the center, however there are many ajis that black may take advantage of. What would you recommend?

Link to the game: http://www.trmph.com/hex/game/lg-2000904

I think black is totally lost in this position. Best would maybe be 25.c6 because there are no tricks available. But 25.c6 is probably a quick white win anyway.

Arek, I thought this is the pivotal point of the game. However, I will not argue with you - I'll just ask when it stopped to be an equal game if you don't mind? :)

Force, visually, you just have no stones on top.

Force, I wish that position after 6.e7 is a white win because I play that way as white, but it's pretty equal. 7.L4 I don't like at all and possibly it's already a turning point but then 11.k9 is a blunder and game over.

Options for #11 are: k11 and k6. If you're a bot then maybe also b5 but I don't recommend :D

Arek, thanks! Regarding 6. e7 - what is the point of this move? To be honest white shape looks strange and full of aji. Regarding 11. k9 - is it a blunder all the time (not a joseki) or in this specific position? I see that maybe k8 could be better than k9 in every possible position, but I have never seen k11 before.

Game #5

This is the position that I can't figure out:

I was wondering whether it is better to play A or B (I bet B is better). Eventually I've played a probe C, to decide whether I prefer stone A or B. However, playing the probe there is a risk of no answer and losing sente options on the upper edge. On the other hand, ignoring C is rather big...what do you think?

Link to the game: http://www.trmph.com/hex/game/lg-2033285

First of all I think white i3 is wrong. Secondly I vote move C. And sincerely I would play an option D: 8.h6

Ok I will elaborate a little.

Assume white play C. It's wrong for black to play either A or B because his group is already connected.

White playing A is of no benefit. White believs he can benefit by playing B if he assumes black responds with A, because then white gathers all the free nozokis. But the problem is that after B black should play nozoki on j2 and then joseki on c4 and then try to find the best connection to top.

Ok, I see - I falled into the trap of assuming I would get all free nozokis. 8. h6 is something I also considered, but the plan was to play some forcing moves first, then split the center.

What do you think about this game?http://www.trmph.com/hex/game/lg-2136907

Taking into account that my chances against gzero are...zero, I tried to play sth "aggresive", espiecially trying not to respond to his moves too much. I though I gave him some resistance creating threats on the bottom, however it's hard to judge such games knowing that I would lose anyway :) Where do you see my biggest mistake? I bet sacrifice of upper-right corner was too much, but I'm not sure anymore :D