no bot - yes human

I know I'm playing with bot games do kata my soul. win or lose, I can not feel anything. no bot, yes human. :0)

Behind soulless bots are brilliant human minds.

I am human and everyone tells me I have no soul.
What can I say? Satan made me a deal I could not refuse.
At the time I thought it was Santa. Should have read the fine print.

U know what, basat?

Go up to your room, right now, without dessert tonight!
Watch "HER" by Spike jonze
and think about u have done.

To put it briefly, it's nonsense to use computer programs in the game. people here to enjoy the play.

Basat. Luffy enjoys playing breakthrough against you:-)

And so does Wanderer. And his human programmers get vicarious enjoyment, so it's all good. :)

just resign against bots.

@luffy_bot: ...I'm enjoying playing with you.??! 8)

@wanderer_C: Losing against you is very nice. :)))

boTs should not Lose a true champion. :0)

@Luffy @wanderer...
without the use of bots in the game of breakthrough you how successful you are?? :0)
These programs is admirable. but such use is not fair gaming sites.

@basat: The bots play as bots, identify themselves as bots. Their "creators" or "operators" are not claiming to be champions or even good players. What exactly is your point?

totally agreed with Yper.

wanderer_c doesn't use bots. It IS a bot :)

At some point during development luffy became stronger than me. So the only way to test its strength is to have it play against stronger players. I feel like it is interesting for other players as well. There arent many breakthrough bots. Wanderer is stronger but luffy has a different playing style.

the point is that having my bot playing against you means that I acknowledge you as a better player than I am :-)

@ypercube: €xactly is my point. "taking the help of computer programs on this site do not like being played."

- I do not speak english. I'm using translation.

@basat, I suggest you find a good translator. Really, no offense intended. What I read does not make sense.

I guess you think that only humans are allowed to play in the site and if a bot is playing, then it is helping a human.

The wanderer_c and luffy_bot creators are not taking any help. In this site humans are allowed to play. Bots are allowed to play, too. Aliens, dolphins, even dogs have been reported but not verified, yet. Because in the internet:

I'm a dolphin and I enjoy playing bots which are like us much more intelligent than humans and have a sort of delphinian quality.

No problem who I'm playing.
but I prefer to play against a *brain*.
I'm thinking this is my personaL.

It is difficult to understand me... *;)*

I have no problem understanding basat's English. It is quite clear.

As the creator of a bot (The_Shark_c) I do have a slight personal stake in this conversation. I say slight, because The Shark has now retired, except by request (and the few monthly championships that it is still in).

I think that playing against the very strong dots and boxes players here helped me and inspired me to improve much more quickly than I could have otherwise. Also, it helped to deflate my previous opinion that my bot was already stronger than any human. I still don't know have that much sense of how I do against a strong opponent when I go second -- I suspect that if my goal were strong play from losing positions that I probably still have quite a ways to go.

On the other hand, I do not want anyone to feel pressured to play a game against a bot if they don't want to (nor to have to avoid the championships and monthly cups in order to not do so). This site should be primarily about the enjoyment of the players who play here in person.

On the other, other, hand, I try to play the board and not the opponent, so I don't, in some "official" sense, know or care whether my opponent is a bot or not.....

To answer basat's implied question above, I think that The_Shark_c's dots and boxes rating of 2207 is still a bit low. It should probably above 2300, although I do not know by how much.

My rating, which is around 1850, is probably roughly correct. I'm almost positive that I belong somewhere by 1750 and 1950.

0k!
Continue to hide behind (shade) a bot.

I understand basat, and also stopped playing some tournaments where there were a lot of bots around.

In Twixt, the only game I am any good at, the bots are not really good players. I think that is also true for Go (a game I don't even know how to play at all.) Also true for Hex (which I know how to play but I am not very good at.)

When the opinion of enough players in a certain game is that bots shouldn't be allowed in that game, I think bots should stay away from that game. But what is "enough"? I don't really know. I DO know that in dots, chess and reversi, I definitely would not like to play against bots. In EWN and soccer, I don't mind playing against them at all.

As for breakthrough... well, I think it would be possible to make a bot that outplays any human by far, but I don't know how much effort it would take. I prefer playing against humans here, too, especially in the championship. But I don't mind if they enter a monthly cup or two. But that's just my personal opinion, of course.

Hjallti & Marius Halsor â˜
Thank you for understanding me. :0)

basat, I think William Fraser does not hide behind (shade) a bot; as far as I know he doesn't use the bot to play as William Fraser. But William is the programmer (father) of one of the bots, The_Shark_c.

I think it is not the same as the "cheaty thing" of using computers to play word games in here, although it has its own issues. However, please consider the bots as standalone players (non-human, tho), and not tools for some human players; that's another story.

@GregorL0
I do not target a single person (William Fraser).
I did review the whole 'bot' for general use.

I also meant the general use of 'bot', understood as a standalone non-human player. Furthermore, here in LG the bots are specified with a "_c" or "_bot" in the name :D

Cheers,
Gregorio

how do we know that u aren't a bot?
what if u are posting here just with your AI?!

I suppose this would be a good time to tell everyone. YOU ARE ALL BOTS!

I have created all of you in my virtual reality program on my HP running Windows 7. You only think you are real. You should hope I do not try to upgrade to Windows 8 or you will all cease to exist.

Entities that are associated with an account on little golem are considered alien by most humans.

whahaha

I'm most definitely a bot whatsoever.

Just to complete the set of all possibilities, I should point out that Wanderer is really a human masquerading as a bot.

At last wanderer reveals its true self !!! I should have known :-). Wanderer plays just like a very strong human player. doesnt play for short term tactical advantage like bots usually do but has a reasonable long term strategy from the beggining of the game.

it is in my opinion not possible to set an appropriate rating for the_shark because there is a big difference in whether it plays as player 1 or player 2. beating the_shark as second player is impossible which kinda sets it's rating on infinite, while however, beating the_shark as first player is when i'm using a straightforward opening much easier for me than beating a human with a rating of 2000-2100. i'm not sure the_sharks rating should be above 2300 since human players of that level play almost perfectly as well and win most of the time as player 1, but are still a pain in the ass to beat when they go second.

Usually...
a strong game programs or bots power rating is happening in 2300.

I think the acceptance of bots should be decided on a game by game basis. If a game is dominated by bots and so becomes uninteresting, the bots should resign from tournaments. However in games where the best bots are equal to or worse then the best players, I like having the bots around.

Don't blame or ban bots that outsmart human players. They can help us hone our skills and deepen our understanding of games. They don't make games uninteresting; their dominance merely reveals the inherent uninterestingness/simplicity of many traditional games.

Do I understand correctly that game is 'uninteresting' because you're beaten by a bot? Or that 'simplicity' would bar a game from being interesting?

Interesting.

Sorry, I should have said the tournaments become uninteresting, not the games themselves. I definitely think that no matter how good a bot is they should stick around for invitations/inter-bot play as it's a good experience for both the player and the programmer. The only time I have a problem with a bot is if it continues to enter tournament play and is so significantly above the skill level of any player that it will win everything it enters. Obviously there is no hard and fast rule for when a bot hits this point, and it should be up to the top players in the game and the programmer themselves.

Exactly the case with Maciej Celuch in Hex 13x13... so significantly above the skill level of any player :P

this thread got serious.
boriiing.

Luffy was just horribly slaughtered by a mere human :) whose rating is only about 1500. It show that unlike wanderer luffy is completely playable even by normal persons.

@Luffy_bot: ...against you winning player's (Chris) rating value is above 1900. :0)

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/info/player_chart.jsp?gtid=brkthr&plid=11306