Ethics of word generators in WYPS

Maybe my vocabulary is more limited than I imagine. But playing some of the higher ranked players in WYPS it’s hard to believe people actually know all the words they use. Maybe they have played Scrabble for many years and have an extraordinary vocabulary, but sometimes it feels like they are using word generators. So what do people think of the ethics of word generators in WYPS. Does the strategy of WYPS and the enhanced complexity compared to Scrabble make the use of word generators acceptable (i.e. it’s not about finding words but how you use them). As a recent convert to WYPS, genuinely interested in people’s opinion as to what they think is acceptable on LG.

I personally don't use word generators or lists at all, I play all the games on LG and just don't have time to do this for all the word games. I have no problems with people who do though, online turn-based games are different to over the board games and it would be impossible to monitor anyway.

Besides, there have been plenty of games where I've taken advantage of the online nature of the game. The board has filled up and I must either find a word or lose immediately. After many attempts, one of my guesses turns out to be a real word and I win the game. This wouldn't occur over the board either, so if I lose my next game to somebody who keeps playing long obscure words, I can't really complain. And who's to say they don't know all these words anyway?

I have a copy of the SOWPODS list on my computer, and I allow myself the use of notepad and its "Find" feature (which doesn't allow me to search except for exact substring match).

I first starting using this approach because I couldn't figure out what constituted a legal move in OSKI. It turned out that my problem was that I didn't know that words which contained the initial 3-letter word as part of them were invalid. Note that that word doesn't appear in the game record and cannot be deduced unless one know which 3 hexes are the starting hexes.

I think it would be interesting to have a conversation around "what constitutes a valid resource with respect to LG games".

I never thought of Martyn Hamer's approach of trying a bunch of strings to see if they work......

Probably 6 or more years ago, I posted a long list of "aids" that one could use in word games such that each was barely different from the one before, yet that list started as "you have access to a dictionary" and ended with "you have written a computer program that selects the best move for you after looking several plies deep". I think third on the list was "use of an editor and its “Find” feature". Alas I'm unable to find that thread. I wasn't able to find it both four and five years ago when I last looked for it. It can probably be recreated.

However, the discussion about when greys flip from being white to black has alas never been a productive one, as it *always* gets derailed.

@FatPhil, Here is the forum, but it was Marleys Ghost who posted the original list

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/forum/topic2.jsp?forum=25&topic=118

I don't know whether trying to have a discussion of what the rules should be is interesting, but I think that if I were be chosen as the person do decide what they are, I'd say:

1. Put a link to the SOWPODS list on the game page (like the link to trmph on many games).

2. Allow people to derive lists from the SOWPODS (such as $grep q) but they may not be used to analyze positions which existed when the list was made. In other words, you may make a list of words containing a "Q" but you would need to make it ahead of time, not once a position came up with an "Q" lying around.

3. You may also use lists which other people have generated, but again you may not use a list for any positions which existed at the time you downloaded it.

4. The files so generated can be looked at using a computer, but you may use only navigation features (up, down, page up, page down, goto line number) and not search features (find, word completion, spell checking, etc.) If it weren't for the environment, I'd like you to have to print it out. But I find paper so wasteful.

5. These rules to be linked from the game's page (in with the rules related to move mechanics and scoring).

Note that by the standards above I am cheating, but in the absence of known rules, that seemed the best compromise between having fun myself and not preventing anyone else from having fun.

My focus is not on enforcement, but simply on letting players know what cheating is. Call me an idealist, but I like the honor system in that regard.

I think I found the thread, Phil. I've bumped it. It was in the general forum.

Many thanks Ray! Apologies to Marleys Ghost for {pre,as}suming that I posted it. (I think I posted an extended version at some time, though, I seem to remember more steps.)

@Phil, you have nothing to apologize to me for.

@Marius, thank you for finding http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/forum/topic2.jsp?forum=1&topic=1717. I was unaware when I listed possibilities on 2008-02-01 that Paavo Pirinen had posted a similar list on 2007-07-09.

As I see it, if the server automatically rejects not legal words, then searching for a word (either straightforward or using some regular expression) in some dictionary is not that different from trying to put different letters and see if LG accepts those. Just makes it easier and faster. But in general, having the searchable dictionary is like having the list of all possible moves in a particular position. For example, in Chess such a list (of possible moves) is rather obvious and the game is not about finding some obscure possible move but about planning your moves, i.e. tactics and strategy. I approach WYPS the same way. The searchable dictionary only helps to find the list of all possible moves in the current position. It doesn't really help to plan tactics/strategy.

@Marius, thanks for the old links, seems like there has been related discussions for a while.

@Arty, Basically I agree with you, as long as no one is using a program for tactics and strategy I think using resources to get possible words is fine.

@fatphil, yes it is a grey discussion but wanted to make sure I was following the ethics most viewed as reasonable on LG. For most other game types it is more black and white.