OKSI - dictionary

Does anyone know what dictionary English OKSI uses? Why does it accept the word POSITON which doesn't exist in any dictionary (other than a French one) as far as I can see ..?

The lexicon I believe is still the now out of date sowpods lexicon (a combination of the american and British lexicons, that was used in international scrabble events and most countries outside the USA)!

an electron but with a positive charge, also POSITRON [n -S]
Collins

oppss!.. sorry, kingofthebesl, but TheSingingDetective asked positon and not positron... and positron is written or can be found in english dictionary..

adding to that... why all the word games here, not only the " oski", accept proper noun/s which is not uses in any word games?.. please, my apology for my asking... i was just confused and wondering... 'coz it is unusual to do that such thing in word games.. and it's unfair that in some other countries didn't know the distinguished name of a common noun that is only known by a few countries... 'coz it or they only available for their own countries..

i was playing word games especially scrabble since my childhood days... and proper noun never accepted them.. also in other online game sites neither accepting proper noun... so, i was really confusing about word games here..

wish, i will know what is the main reason of mr. Richard Malaschitz, the webmaster here, for allowing proper noun/s in all word games here at his site.. thanks..

Words allowed in scrabble in principle should be allowed in word games on this site assuming the lexicon is up-to-date.
Positon is allowed in the scrabble lexicon.

A. Oops not "oppss" and B. "...also positron"

The definition is the one provided for Positon that was copy and pasted. Just means Positron and Positon means the same thing I believe!

Give an example of word that you think shouldn't be allowed.

Ok, but it seems there is also another definition as used by Australian Women Against Violence in their "Positon's vcacant" (sic) webpage (http://awava.org.au/category/announcement/awava-news/positons-vacant/

Hope they they don't come across anyone who reacts violently to apostrophe abuse!

how could you say positon and positron mean the same thing if the 1st 1 couldn't find in english dictionary while the other 1 is written or can be found?..

i was asking the proper noun of a common noun... so, if i would give an example of a common noun like cellphone and its proper noun is samsung... is samsung will be accepted by the scrabble?.. i doubt it, coz in other game sites that i am currently playing never accepted it..

re oppss... are you correcting it the way i spelled it?.. if so, sorry... but i wrote it the way it is... same as hmmn instead of hmmm.. i would just like to be unique those word expressions by writing the way i wanted.. then if not for correcting... but cited it as for an example only, hmmn, ok!..

The dictionary used for the wordgames is known as the ENABLE list. It might have been compiled originally as the Sctabble wordbase, by somebody without knowledge on the subject. It certainly contains many spelling mistakes, and is very much outdated. It contains a few "words" that DO NOT EXIST in English (f. ex. SHUTE, JOW), many obsolete words (last time used by Geoffrey Chaucer in the 12th century), and some words from foreign languages that ARE NOT USED/ARE UNKNOWN in English (f. ex. TYRANNE from Latin, the English word is exclusively TYRANT). On the other side, it omits many obsolete words (such as used by Shakespeare, f. ex.) and although full of foreign currency units, doesn't list the EURO.

Now to the original question of TheSingingDetective. The wordgames DO NOT ALLOW proper nouns, the list contains however words that exist in English as a noun with lower-case initial. F. ex.: The list would not allow "China" (a country) but allows "china" (=porcelain). It would not allow "Japan" (a country) but does allow "japan" (a type of ink). It does not allow any word written exclusively with a capital initial (f. ex. Monday, September, Germany, Samsung etc.).

To revise the list would take a year, there being half a million entries, and to save space they are listed like this:

ward (means "ward")
4-en (means "warden")
6-s (means "wardens)
5-r (means "warder"
6-s (means "warders")
4-robe (means "wardrobe")
8-s (means "wardrobes")

This causes the spelling mistakes (like POSITON) and to revise something like this is not easy...

"The wordgames DO NOT ALLOW proper nouns", as you said... and that is exactly i wanted to emphasize in my 1st post as my additional or follow-up question to TheSingingDetective thread.. please, kindly read again my 1st post... 'coz as i said, " i was just confused and wondering" for accepting proper noun/s in all word games here not only oski..

in my experience here in playing word games here, it have happened that i was encountering some of my opponents here have used proper noun/s though i know that they're not their fault 'coz it or they were accepted by the system... but, sometimes, i asked them and they answered me that they were listed in the dictionary used in word games here.. sorry, i forgot the name of the dictionary they were given or told to me.. but when i wanted to used them in other game sites, those words didn't accept... that's why i joined in discussion here to answer my confusion..

and sorry to say that positon is not 1 kind of spelling mistakes... 'coz it's a proper noun... it's a name of a medicine... and here's the proof..

anyway, thanks for taking your time to answer or join the TheSingingDetective thread.. actually, he's the 1 who used that word, positon, in our last finished game.. he was wondering and couldn't believe that it was accepted by the system 'coz he also didn't know the meaning of it or what does positon means... that's why he posted a thread here regarding that matter..

again, thank you..

oppss!.. sorry, just correcting or follow-up for; here's the proof.. 'coz there's a mistake for typing the link... it was a typo-error..

my apology and thanks again..

oppss!.. another correction or typo-error; to use and not *-to used-*.. ~sigh~..

Well Collins is an English dictionary and has position. Chambers also contains "positon" and seems to indicate that as well. These I believe are 2 of best known dictionaries in the UK BTW.
So this is 2 respected Lexicon that include the word.

Correcting someone on a spelling/reading issue and getting it wrong yourself you are going to get called on it. "Oppss" truly isn't in any lexicon I know of and isn't phonetically correct, oops would contain 2 or more of the letter "O." Oops ooops ooooooooops for all I care but I entered the definition I had easiest to hand for "Positon" and had you payed enough attention to what I wrote instead of being condescending and using snazzy looking coding tricks, you could have hopefully have been able to correctly interpret my post. "Oppss" is too severe to be typo and given the bold and links I know you aren't that inaccurate, "hmmn," "hmmm" or even hmmmmmmmm are exaggerated or could easily be a typo.

BTW hm and hmm are allowable spellings.
"Hmmm" and "hmmmn" are not allowable spellings.

If you think I'm wrong please ask did I notice it was positon and not positron? AFTER HAVING REREAD WHAT I WROTE.

Whether or not the definition/spelling is right it exists in a couple of major dictionaries that makes a good reason to allow it.

@beck
In what way is positon a "spelling mistake and not an alternate spelling?
Do you know any words in Enable and not in the scrabble dictionary or vice-versre, are you sure it is Enable that is used?

I assume "tyranne" has some source to justify being in the English dictionary.

> Correcting someone on a spelling/reading issue

"payed"? Is that British usage? It's "paid" according to Webster over here. (Although I don't object to phonetic-spelling projects (nor to replacing irregular verbs with regular verbs (which is the only justification I can see for using "gift" as a verb)).)

@TheSingingDetective, @babyruth: The problem is very likely that you are not checking the right dictionaries. If you're relying on online dictionaries, most of them only list entries from their "concise" versions. You will need to look things up from an "unabridged" dictionary, and possibly more than one, before you can claim with any level of assurance that a word does not exist.

Positon is the same as a positron. A negaton also exists and is the same as a negatron which is the same as an electron. You can find entries for all three of these questionable words on merriam-webster.com [An e.g.: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/positon ]

Payed and paid mean the same thing!

Ok, so give me an explanation for JOW and for SHUTE.

@ King of the Besl (whatever a BESL may be, is it in Collins?): Interjections may be made up ad hoc, they do not necessary be listed in Merriam Webster. It is perfectly plausible to say "Oppss". It is a major breech of forum etiquette to correct the spelling of personal posts, though. Instead of trying to "explain", you should have apologized.

PAYED is a word that at this moment does not exist, the only word now used is PAID, it may be however an obsolete variant used by Chaucer in the 12th century... TYRANNE is the vocative of TYRANNUS, possibly used by Shakespear with poetic license in beginning a speech "O TYRANNE!..." meaning "Oh, you tyrant...". But when Hercule Poirot says in an Agatha Christie novel "Mon Dieu!" that does not mean that is has become part of the English language. It remains French, as TYRANNE is and remains a Latin word. The problem is, that the list has some obsolete word, but omits others; the list has a lot of words you can't find in most dictionaries, but omits amny words used in everyday life, and many words easily findable in on-line dictionaries.

So who claims to be the arbiter of what to include and what not? After all, the wordgames say that one should use English words, not that one should use words listed by Mr. X. The list should be revised, but there is no hope that somebody will do it.

*hmmn!*..

i think, this will be a long journey of explaining myself to what i have posted or by joining TheSingingDetective thread... though i would like to post a thread before of my own re for confusing of using proper noun/s in word games here at lg.. but i chose not to, for a specific reason... or maybe, i was already accepted it... i mean, the prerogative of the *webmaster of lg* for having his own reason/s re that matter in due respect with him..

but when TheSingingDetective told me that he posted a thread re *positon*... couldn't help myself not to support him.. but because of that *concerns*... am now the 1 facing into an awkward situation or scenario... or maybe if i gave myself to think twice for just sticking to what a reason i have before, then am not here explaining for myself.. but of course, it's also my prerogative to depend myself as much as i can.. and not letting myself to just ignore it... nor just let it goes on... so, here i am, *again*.. ~smile~..

@ kingofthebesl;

1st and foremost; re *instead of being condescending and using snazzy looking coding tricks*...

\* in what ways did i condescend?.. is it by using snazzy looking coding tricks?.. or is it because by disagreeing that *positon* and *positron* have the same meaning or mean the same thing?.. if those are not, please kindly elaborate it.. 1 thing, is there a rule here not to use textile or snazzy looking coding tricks as what your terms are?.. as far as i know or kindly please take a look down under the *send message button*... it indicates *use textile markup language*.. and it seems to me is like a *command*... so, i just followed it.. then, is it wrong?.. am just asking, please... and have no intention of being condescending here... *please*..

2nd; re *correcting someone on a spelling/reading issue and getting it wrong yourself you are going to get called on it*...

\* again, in what ways did i correct some1 on a spelling/reading issue?.. again, is it because of disagreeing that these 2 words, *positon* and *positron* mean the same thing?.. or by clarifying that *positon* and not *positron* was the 1 TheSingingDetective asking for?.. you didn't mention *positon* in your 1st post... so, i assumed then that it's only *positron* you were talking for... that's why i clarified it.. *disagreeing* and *clarifying* are too far in *correcting*, in terms of meaning as far as i know.. 1 thing, *getting it wrong myself* and then correcting it by myself is not issue for me... at least, i admit it... means knowing how to get it right by myself.. wish, no mean for you this attitude of mine.. 1 more thing, wish, this site has an *edit button* to edit those typo-error... or either a *delete button*... just only a wish, promise..

3rd; re *oppss* and *hmmn*...

\* those are not typo-error... as i said, please kindly read this again; "oppss... are you correcting it the way i spelled it?.. if so, sorry... but i wrote it the way it is... same as *hmmn* instead of *hmmm*.. i would just like to be +unique+ those word expressions by writing the way i +wanted+.. then if +not for correcting+... but +cited+ it as for an +example+ only, hmmn, ok!".. please, kindly take a look deeply those underlined words..

4th; re *given the bold and links i know you aren’t that inaccurate*...

\* i was puzzled with this phrase; *aren’t that inaccurate*... in what ways?.. if you were saying that *oppss* and *hmmn* are too severe to be typo and are exaggerated or could easily be a typo... though i already explained they are not typo-error.. there's a contradiction, i guess, for saying that phrase..

5th; re *If you think I’m wrong please ask did I notice it was positon and not positron?*...

\* i don't get it what you mean... who will ask to whom?.. is it asking it for myself?.. or are you asking it for yourself?.. or will i ask it for you?.. or are you asking it for me?.. which 1, please?..

6th; re *Whether or not the definition/spelling is right it exists in a couple of major dictionaries that makes a good reason to allow it.*...

\* ok, no contest here now... it's your opinion and i respect that.. 'coz i have already given the link for *positon* to notice that it's a proper noun... and it's too far difference from *positron*..

lastly; re *Payed and paid mean the same thing!*...

\* ok, agreed a wee bit here 'coz of this... though admittedly, i didn't use *payed* 'coz of the reason given by my english teacher during my school days.. but now, i think, i will give it a try... because of that link.. ~smile~..

continuation 'coz the system didn't accept the whole message... so, i need to cut it into 2;..

@ Xenophon;

re *The problem is very likely that you are not checking the right dictionaries. If you’re relying on online dictionaries, most of them only list entries from their “concise” versions. You will need to look things up from an “unabridged” dictionary, and possibly more than one, before you can claim with any level of assurance that a word does not exist.*...

\* thank you... though are you quite sure that i didn't check it out before i joined with TheSingingDetective thread?.. then what the link that i have been given is for?.. *a word does not exist* is very too far from *couldn't find in english dictionary*, as far as i know..

re *Positon is the same as a positron*...

\* already given my explanation between those 2 words... kindly read my explanation again from my previous post..

re *A negaton also exists and is the same as a negatron which is the same as an electron.*...

\* no contest about *negaton* though it is not in technical use... same as well with *negatron* and *electron, no contest, too*..

re *An e.g.: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/positon*..

\* it doesn't mean that *negaton* same as *negatron*... might it be possible also that *positon* same thing with *positron?*.. oh, i doubt it, promise!.. what do you think why mirriam-webster dictionary hold it by viewing it in unabridged dictionary?.. it's for a reason, i guess.. again, *positon* is a proper noun... a distinguished name of an ointment or cream... kindly click again the given link in my previous post... thanks..

@ Andreas Bleck;

re *It is perfectly plausible to say “Oppss”. It is a major breech of forum etiquette to correct the spelling of personal posts, though. Instead of trying to “explain”, you should have apologized.*...

\* thank you... a zillion thanks for understanding on what i wanted to implicate re *word expressions* or *interjections*... 'coz in my humble opinion, those words are 1 way of expressing my emotion/s.. again, thank you.. but asking an apology should be done with all our heart and not because it was suggesting by some1... asking an apology having no mean or by just word is useless for me.. it should have come from the heart not just from the head.. ~wink~.. and really much appreciated with your concerns, promise... so, whether kingofthebesl will ask an apology or not is not a big issue for me.. coz we're all entitled to our own opinion/s.. so, we need to respect them..

*to summarize*;
again, am not here to stoop down some1 or for being condescending by joining the discussion here... just wanted to answer my confusion of accepting proper noun/s in all word games here at lg.. if you all think that *disagreeing* or even *clarifying* one's post is like *correcting* the spelling of some1 post... then i would say, i *big disagree* on that... 'coz as i said, it maybe because of a typo-error that's why it spelled incorrect... and it had been proven that by myself by having them, too..

as they say... *it's ok to hurt a person with truths, but never or don't comfort her or him with lies*... so, saying *disagree* or *agree* to a person's sayings is our prerogative... and by doing that, we are just being true to ourselves.. peace to all and have a nice day!..

huh!.. it's really a long journey.. hehehe..

Andreas Bleck wrote

"Now to the original question of TheSingingDetective. The wordgames DO NOT ALLOW proper nouns, the list contains however words that exist in English as a noun with lower-case initial. F. ex.: The list would not allow "China" (a country) but allows "china" (=porcelain). It would not allow "Japan" (a country) but does allow "japan" (a type of ink). It does not allow any word written exclusively with a capital initial (f. ex. Monday, September, Germany, Samsung etc.)."

Now positon might be a name of some medicine you found but it is also another word for positron acording to the dictionery used for word games on this site. If some product will have name Yes should we ban yes from wordgames as a proper noun?

How do you determine if a word is an english word?
By serching for it in english dictionary? but which one? Is a word an english word if it apear in some english dictionary or a word is not an english word if it does not apear in some english dictionary?

If you think that the dictionary used for word games on this site (kingofthebesl sugested it is sowpods lexicon) is bad just sugest a better one.

1st of all... thanks, kfiecio..

ok, you said; (just copied and pasted them same as in what i have done in my previous post)..

*but it is also another word for positron acording to the dictionery used for word games on this site*...

\* how we can say that it is really another word for positron if the given dictionary by kingofthebesl which is collins dictionary saying that it's already *obsolete* in physics, meaning no longer in use?.. same goes for negaton... though i didn't contest nor argue it with Xenophon..

*If some product will have name Yes should we ban yes from wordgames as a proper noun?*...

\* did i contest or disagree with what Andreas Bleck wrote as what message you have given in your post?.. if not... so, my answer is obvious or do i still need to answer it?..

*How do you determine if a word is an english word?
By serching for it in english dictionary? but which one? Is a word an english word if it apear in some english dictionary or a word is not an english word if it does not apear in some english dictionary?*...

\* as long it will be accepted or can be found in all dictionaries or any dictionary either online or not with a definite meaning not only just a distinguished name of a common noun.. so, that's mean, it will also be accepted in scrabble... but it is obvious that *positon* is still questionable its definite meaning... then if you found a link showing its meaning and not just a distinguished name... good for it 'coz our or *my confusion* answered and no need to contest then.. ok, i admit, i was wrong when i only mentioned english dictionary..

*If you think that the dictionary used for word games on this site (kingofthebesl sugested it is sowpods lexicon) is bad just sugest a better one.*...

\* again, i was saying repeatedly that i would just like to answer my confusion of accepting proper noun/s in all games here at lg... and never came in my mind that the dictionary used here at lg is bad neither saying it is bad... so how can a suggest a better 1?.. at this moment, *positon* is still questionable its meaning..

thank you for taking your time to give or tell your opinion/s re *positon*... but again, by answering it doesn't mean that i am being condescending *again*... i was just also stating my opinion..

again, thanks..

"how we can say that it is really another word for positron if the given dictionary by kingofthebesl which is collins dictionary saying that it’s already obsolete in physics, meaning no longer in use?.. same goes for negaton... though i didn’t contest nor argue it with Xenophon.."

I dont know if there is online wersion of that dictionery explaining all the words in it. But if it is dictionary commonly used in "international scrabble events" so I doubt that there are proper nouns in it. And definition from collins dictionary provides that it is indeed not only a proper noun. like china and japan. Thats why I felt that you contest what Andreas Bleck wrote

Why the fact that positon is an obsolete word for positron makes it a questionable word for use in wordgames? If there is more than one word for the same thing does that mean we should leave the most common one and ban the rest from wordgames because there are rarely(or almost never) used today? I thought the point of word games is to extend your personal dictionary. Now we know that positon was at some point a name for positron.

"again, i was saying repeatedly that i would just like to answer my confusion of accepting proper noun/s in all games here at lg"

So I guess the answer is that this site does not accept proper nouns in wordgames. If it is indeed the dictionary sugested by kingofthebesl that is used on this site.

@Andreas: For your information, it's: King of Thebes I

ok!..

re *I thought the point of word games is to extend your personal dictionary.*...

\* i think, this getting too personal now by saying that i have personal dictionary... i just ignored, let it go or payed/paid no attention to your question re *yes* though in my insight or view of point is 1 kind of an irrelevant questions... or can i use the word *stupid* for your asking re *yes*?... or asking an argument that makes a blood boil.. we all know that everybody knows that *yes* is an english word and used in scrabble.. that's why i replied you back a wee bit or slight bluntly question... but i won't regret it.. i can be more rude or abrupt depending to a person i was talking with... or either can be more polite on the other hand.. admittedly, if i don't know the word and 1st time to read it in word games here at lg... i was browsing/searching it online or in google and if i couldn't find the meaning, i was asking it to my opponent/s.. and if in case i found that it's a proper noun... i was also telling him/her my sentiment about it..
*the 1st day i joined this discussion, i tried as much as i can to be civilized 'coz i know that joining a forum, we cannot avoid that there will be had *rude comments* that will come out.. that's why TheSingingDetective made a request to every1 and said this; *Hope they they don’t come across anyone who reacts violently to apostrophe abuse!*.. then saying *to extend my personal dictionary*, i think, this will be pushing me to the limit... 'coz this is too much and a *BIG FOUL*.. remember TheSingingDetective and i asked this because we couldn't find the meaning in any dictionary online... instead i found out that it is a proper noun by giving the link..

re *Why the fact that positon is an obsolete word for positron makes it a questionable word for use in wordgames? If there is more than one word for the same thing does that mean we should leave the most common one and ban the rest from wordgames because there are rarely(or almost never) used today? Now we know that positon was at some point a name for positron.*...

\* wish i have known the answer and for sure i wasn't here, facing all these kind of questions... remember, i am here to answer my confusion.. ok, let me guess same as well you were guessing for answering that this site does not accept proper nouns in word games.. i won't contest it because as you said it is a guess... and i think, it's a another type of opinion.. now, can you respect mine if i'll answer your question like as i was guessing only, too?.. if so, then here are my answers;...
\*\* maybe, they found out that positon is not an english word... that's why it's already *obsolete*... so, that's mean, it is not also a scrabble word...
\*\* or maybe, cannot be an english word 'coz they couldn't find a definite meaning for it...
\*\* or maybe they found out that this is not accepted in scrabble because as i said that this is not and cannot be an english word as they found out that it is already a distiguished name of a cream or ointment and worst, a name given in other language... 'coz we as all know that all word games use only an english word..
\*\* or maybe the dictionary using in all word games here at lg hasn't revised yet that's why it is still acceptable by the system...

*note*;
again, the above answers are only guess by me... they aren't even call them a theory, not a fact, not proven... so, don't take them seriously.. but i'll find my way to prove that it cannot be accepted as scrabble word because it's already an *obsolete* word for positron... and for not finding it in any dictionary online... by giving more times to search it in google.. yet, i cannot promise that i can make it... but i'l give it a try... so, give me more some times..

again, thanks to all who participated in this TheSingingDetective thread... by the way, where are you, mr. patrick?.. huh!..

Hi,

I do not know what kfiecio intended to say with
*I thought the point of word games is to extend your personal dictionary.*
but I understand it as a kind of general statement. This means that "you" is not _you, the conversation partner_ but anybody in the world. In this case a better wording would by *I thought the point of word games is to extend* *_one's_* *personal dictionary.*

There is an impersonal construction in German (by using "man"), and there is something similar in French as far as I remember, but some languages do not have this possibility and choose "you" as representation for the undetermined individual.

On the other hand it is indeed true that word games are based on words (or a set of words, called word list), which basically determine the set of possible moves. The word list has to be agreed upon _before_ the beginning of the game, making it your personal dictionary. But this is not the meaning intended by kfiecio, I suppose.

In the case of Little Golem, _according to the FAQ_ the used dictionary is the SOWPODS word list, which has been announced by Richard in the forum.

It is futile to discuss particular words in the list. Feel free to provide a better list.

I apologize for pushing the "Send message" button too soon. Here two working download links to the SOWPODS word list. The first one seems to be a UNIX-style text file, the second one is Windows-style.
"SOWPODS UNIX/Linux": http://en.sourceforge.jp/projects/sfnet_scrabbledict/downloads/Old%20Files/Loose%20Dictionaries/sowpods.zip/
SOWPODS Windows

Like Thomas said it was nothing personal. It was a general statement. And by a personal dictionary I mean the set of word one knows the meaning of. Everyone has his own “personal dictionary”.

"instead i found out that it is a proper noun by giving the link"

You found it after kingofthebes already gave a definition from dictionary showing that it is not only a proper noun. You ignored it and kept insisting that this site accepts proper nouns in wordgames, giving positon as an example.

I dont understand the argument about positon having no definite meaning. For me it has the same definite meaning as positron and antielectron. Should we ban antielectron from wordgames? I dont think antielectron is obsolete like positon (wikipedia uses it). But the issue of definite meaning of antielectron is the same as for positon. Or the fact that antielectron is not an obsolete word is enough for it to have a definite meaning (the same as positron)?

If for whatever reason you think current dictionary is bad for wordgames (you listed some of them in your post) provide a better one.

ok, here i am again though still couldn't find a proof for *positon* that this is no acceptable for word games or in scrabble... or no longer a scrabble word.. i think, need to use this word on other game sites that am currently playing, but still no chance to use this at this moment... need more some times, i think.. unlike those other words that acceptable here but not in other wordgames on the other game sites... will give those words later ... after giving some words for the 2 gentlemen..

@ Thomas Werner;

hi, too!..

thanks and thanks for those given links... much appreciated though i didn't know how to use those 2 word lists... i tried, but it can't, maybe because need to download it 1st... sorry, hehehe.. but no need to apologize 'coz i was always doing the same thing, hitting the *submit button* too soon though am not finish yet..

i think, you are a *nice person* by reading your message... with an *introductory greetings*... plus your actions for *defending* kfiecio's post... is a sign that you are *well-mannered*, *well-educated* and have a *good etiquette and attitude*.. yup, you're right, maybe i was really *over-re-acted* and didn't give, his post re personal dictionary, a 2nd thought that it was a general statement... that we have different languages..

but on the other hand... i think, you cannot blame me for doing that way in regards of his previous post til his last post.. thanks again 'coz i was enlightened a wee bit... just a wee bit because of his last post.. have a nice day..

continuation;

@ kfiecio;

re *Everyone has his own personal dictionary*...

\* i think, not every1, 'coz the mere fact i don't have, too... if you're talking about a *personal-made dictionary* like *diary*... i don't like doing that kind of stuff.. for me, i categorized it the way it is... that's why i was over-re-acted when i read it.. it seemed to me that because *positon* is not written in my *personal dictionary* if ever i had... that i was keeping that *positon* has no definite meaning.. and if you're talking *personal dictionary* that buys in any bookstore then i would say not every1 has his own, too.. because mine was lost by borrowing it some of my neighbors here... and i don't remember anymore who borrowed it.. i won't mind it 'coz i don't need it anymore because there is an internet now..

re *You found it after kingofthebes already gave a definition from dictionary showing that it is not only a proper noun. You ignored it and kept insisting that this site accepts proper nouns in word games, giving positon as an example.*...

\* kindly read my 1st post again, i didn't ignore it... is just that, admittedly though it's a shameful thing... at 1st, i thought *collins* is the real name of kingofthebesl and not a dictionary... my bad really!.. and *positron* was the 1 he was talking to, that's why i clarified it that it's *positon* and not *positron*... and just realized it when i found out that it's a dictionary.. so, i was tried to search it again in the internet and found out that it's obsolete for *positron*... not only that, it is also *not tenable* now a days, meaning not capable nor able to be upheld, believed, maintained, or defended.. so, i still believing that it is not acceptable now in scrabble because it is now categorized as a proper noun.. ok, some of those words accepted here at lg that are proper nouns are listed below and used them at the other game sites but didn't accept them;
\*\* bodachs-name of an old man or maybe a ghost, but not sure if it's for ghost... kindly take a look this link, please..
\*\* brocard-name of a website or this site
\*\* coburgs-is the tsle of tight's premier live music venue situated situated in ryde... again, kindly take a look at this, please... and this..
\*\* biga-distinguished name for bread baking used in italian baking or for a two-horse chariot
\*\* genas-is a commune in the rhône department in eastern france..

\* you can try to check out my word games if you like to see them by yourself... that those words above were used by some of my opponents here at lg... but i doubt it that you'll spend them with your times.. anyway, thanks..

re *I dont understand the argument about positon having no definite meaning. For me it has the same definite meaning as positron and antielectron. Should we ban antielectron from wordgames? I dont think antielectron is obsolete like positon (wikipedia uses it). But the issue of definite meaning of antielectron is the same as for positon. Or the fact that antielectron is not an obsolete word is enough for it to have a definite meaning (the same as positron)?*...

\* already explained re *positon*... though still finding a proof that this is not acceptable now as scrabble word... give me more some times, please, til next week..
\*\* re *antielectron*... nope, 'coz i found out that it is not an obsolete word... maybe, it is now a replacement or an alternative word for *positon*, i guess.. 'coz *positon* is categorized now as a proper noun, i think... 'coz it's an obsolete word..
\*\* yup, i think so, that *antielectron* is other name now for *positron*... same as well as *negaton* for *negatron*..

re *If for whatever reason you think current dictionary is bad for wordgames (you listed some of them in your post) provide a better one.*...

\* again, it've never came in my mind that the current dictionary used here at lg is bad neither saying, it is bad... as i said as i was guessing before that *maybe the dictionary using in all word games here at lg hasn't revised yet that's why it is still acceptable by the system*.. as what Andreas Bleck quoted in her last post; *The list should be revised, but there is no hope that somebody will do it.*.. so, why do i need to provide a better 1?.. am just here just to answer my confusion and not to receive some *rude* and *abrupt* comments..

*note*;
*some* of those written above are only my opinions til proven... and will be back again after i got a proof for *positon* that it is no longer a scrabble word nor accepted in word games at any other game site or in scrabble.. thanks..

oppss!..

sorry, if the latter part written in maroon color... maybe missing a key or some keys in using code/s... thanks..

What if 'oppss!' is aesthetically not pleasing and seeing it come up again and again hurts? I guess it is a matter of taste but one that is based partly on my respect for existing spelling rules.

There are no spelling rules for interjections, just some listed in the dictionary, and some not. Besides, OSKI has been taken over by the cheaters too, so I quit anyway. The idea of this site was quite good, but with the cheaters plague (see other topic), it has become a waste of time for non-cheating players. Sorry, Richard.

How do you cheat in OSKI?

You write a program.

Maybe I should write one for RoRoRo, and see if it's better than what others have...

Similar to cheating in Golem Word Game. This was the answer from my opponent when I pointed out that he used words which do not exist in the English language (but are in the Sowpods list). "I just use Unix grep but consulting the list is necessary for optimal play." It's like consulting Rybka (or Crafty etc.) is necessary for optimal play... Thanks, but I won't waste my time with this, since the SOWPODS list is shit. Cheaters at wordgames come up with a very high percentage of words you never heard before, words you can't find in any printed dictionary, and words that give no google hits, except references to the Scrabble list. In the game which elicited the above stated answer my opponent used UNAI, UNVAILE and VICESIMAL, one example for each of the three categories.

Phil, do you think Nagy Fathy plays OSKI with a program?

And is there a proof that michael, Nagy Fathy and Tore Sandmark has used computer assistance in their GWG games? How do you talk about your respective programs? Do you brag about them to each other or keep silent? How does this work and how do you feel about it?

Anyone without using computer assistance has probably wondered about it.

The problem here is that babyruth isn't a native English speaker and is misunderstanding what everyone is saying.

@thesingingdetective contended that 'positon' does not exist in any dictionary. I have provided him with a link to the entry in Merriam Webster, one of the largest dictionaries around. It is therefore a valid word.

@Babyruth A medicine and a *proper* noun named 'positon' can coexist. That does not invalidate the *common* noun named positon. You can have a *common* noun named *ford* (defined as a shallow area in a river/stream) and you can have a *proper* noun named Ford (as in the car). The latter does not invalidate the former from being used in Scrabble.

Whoever mentioned personal dictionary to you was talking about personal *vocabularies* (the breadth of words that one knows). He was suggesting that words games help one expand one's vocabulary by learning new and interesting words.

P.S. You will also find really obscure words such as 'capiz' and 'tamarau' which are Filipino in origin. Yet nobody besides you (being from the Philippines as per your profile) might be familiar with them and most *concise* dictionaries might not have an entry for them. Yet, you will very likely find them in *unabridged* dictionaries. IMO, there really is nothing terribly wrong with the current dictionary besides its expansiveness. I, for one, enjoy seeing new words being used by my opponent regardless of how they came by them.

@Andreas: Perhaps we can ask for a limited dictionary to be used or an additional option where the two players can choose the dictionary used for a game. In any event, please don't leave! If you're happy with the limitations of my vocabulary, hit me up for a game or ten!

The players can't choose a dictionary, only the webmaster can. And apparently '''nobody''' can update SOWPODS... I've played a good many games of GWG and OSKI, and I've grown tired of the cheaters in the championships... Sorry, Xenophon, for the time being, I'll take a break...

And bloke, what would you define as "proof"? Since the list is written as I stated above (I've seen a .txt version which came with the game "Bookworm") it is impossible to read the whole list and memorize it. The only way to come up with words that are listed nowhere but in SOWPODS, is using that tool (unix grep) on a computer with a Linux operating system (mine is Windows, so I don't really know how it works)...

Or what about a confession? Some time ago, this came accompanying a GWG move: "I agree that putting those of us who use assistance against those who don’t is like racing cyclists against runners, or pole-vaulters against high-jumpers, and I can’t say I’m happy with the situation either. However, it’s just the way the game’s evolved (it had already done so before I even arrived). Sure, (xxxx) and I stick out at the top, and we both openly admit to using assistance, but there’s absolutely no way of knowing how deep the problem goes, and thus no guaranteed way to fix it. If you get rid of the people who admit to using assistance, then you’ll be left with the ones who don’t admit to it – is that any better?" I'll study philosophy in the meanwhile, and come back with an answer to the question. (Since they "openly admit", maybe I should name them?)

I'll sign my name at the bottom of that confession even if it wasn't me who originally said it. There have been many threads in the Word Games forum on this topic, although none that I remember in the last couple of years, the interested reader is recommended to dredge through the archives.

> using that tool (unix grep) on a computer with a Linux operating system (mine is Windows, so I don't really know how it works)...

FWIW, you can run the Unix utility programs (grep, sed, awk, etc.) on Windows at a cygwin command prompt. I use Mac OS X at home, which has the utilities built in, but at work, where Windows in mandatory, most of us use cygwin. Installing cygwin is a pain, but I would certainly not want to do without it.

Phil, to dredge through the archives, would be an even bigger waste of time. The abovementioned "confession" says everything what there is to say. I'm just tired to compete walking against a cyclist. Next time I come to Tallinn (or somewhere nearby) we'll play GWG OTB. :D

Marley, thanks for the info. I can manage without, but I'm sure other players will make good use of it. ;D

Anyway, OSKI has a much higher strategic component then GWG, which curbs the use of tools very much. I actually managed to draw with Nagy Faty once, and I'm still the record holder in word length in OSKI. My opponent played a much too open game, letting me find "MERCURIALISED" (13 letters), without computer assistance...

> I’m just tired to compete walking against a cyclist.

Did you not notice that I stopped playing 4 years ago?

You're taking it out on me because the others didn't stop - that sounds a bit harsh.

Note: Just for the record, I mentioned cygwin above just so people could get the benefits of the Unix utilities, not so they can cheat at LG word games.

Ok, so FatPhil is the only one who has openly admitted to use computer assistance in scanning through GWG board settings and calculating the best move -- which gives even less room for "fair play" than simply consulting the SOWPODS list.

But how do we know that there are others who also have their pet programs to scan board settings without using human brain? So how could you tell if michael, Nagy Fathy, Tore Sandmark, or others "cheat" if they do not come out the same way as FatPhil did?

If you dredge through the Official word list thread, Tore came out years back too. Others also owned up to various low levels of assistance. Others remained ambiguous. Others said nothing.

Hi, here is my coming out. I confess that I have used computer aided search in the word list used for GWG. :-D

I did it with Notepad, by the way. There I searched for words containing certain patterns I spotted in the playing grid. I personally do not think that this is "cheating", because I was just checking, which words I could create on the grid by completing the patterns I found myself. For each word I had to check the scoring manually and decide to play it or not. It was discussed somewhen in the past that there are different levels of tool-aided play in GWG and that there are different thresholds of what people would still consider as acceptable.

I have abandoned this way of playing a long time ago, because it sucks. Playing games is about having fun, at least for me. And about improving yourself. Trying to find some high-scoring word just by digging through a text file is not fun. Nowadays, I play GWG only once in a while (OSKI, too), and when I have the feeling that my opponent has a much "broader" vocabulary than I have, I just resign.

Sorry, Phil, if it sounded harsh to you. I wasn't meaning to offend or to upset you, I consider this a debate of issues, not persons. That's the reason I didn't name anybody. But I appreciate your courage to come out, and take part in the debate.

Bloke, what do think about somebody who is an English-word-game champion, and sends you a personal message with a move in which even the basic vocabulary is misspelled? Wouldn't that prove that the player is a cheater? It's rather annoying to lose a game to somebody like that...

Thomas, to think about a word, and check in an on-line (or printed) dictionary if it exists, or if something similarly spelled exists, is IMO legitimate. That would be part of the fun, to jog your brain to find half-forgotten words, you once knew, or to construct something by analogy. What is definitely cheating is a computer tool that comes up, after a 1-second-check of the grid against the list, with words that can't be found anywhere else, or which do not exist (see my example above, nobody has yet defined JOW and SHUTE).

Very interesting, the "Official word list" thread. Alain was absolutely right about the whole thing. It's not funny to be cheated. And Phil, the problem is not so much the cheating, it's the defective list. A complete English dictionary has about 550,000 words. With oblique endings (i.e. declensions, conjugations, tenses and plurals), that might come to over a million. The list seems to have less than 200,000 entries, so it's absolutely arbitrary what is in it and what not, which gives the cheaters an enormous advantage, since I can't answer with perfectly ordinary English words of my knowledge, like HYPNOTISE, EURO, ARCHEDLY etc. (all rejected in real games, but they exist). By the way, my guess as to Ed Collins (the author of the homonymous dictionary??)'s question, it's REALTOR.

As a native English speaker, it is one of my pet peeves about Oski, that I can enter a perfectly good English word, and then wait in suspense to see whether or not the program will allow me to use my word. It is not such a good feeling when my word is capriciously rejected.

> HYPNOTISE

Have you tried the American spelling, HYPNOTIZE? I'd be "surprized" if that were also rejected.

No offence taken, Andreas. One of the reasons I don't play any of the word games nowadays is because of the arbitrariness of the wordlist. OTB play is typically dominated by the better memory, not the better tactician. Numeric variants - love'em.

It wasn't just Alain who made good points in that prior thread, I think many contributors did, even when their points were at odds with each other. I was a relative newcomer to the site, I jumped to the same conclusion as Alain quite quickly too, and just adapted to the opponent-space I was surrounded by (and thus became part of it).