Backwards capture position Einstein forum

8 replies. Last post: 2011-11-02

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Backwards capture position
  • ypercube at 2011-11-01

    What is the only winning move for Blue here?

    game 1370283, after Red played 114

  • Ingo Althofer at 2011-11-01

    Nice position.

    Only Northwards!

  • lorentz at 2011-11-01

    That is cute. It reminds me of some chess endgame positions where a king must maintain the opposition from a distance.

  • Dvd Avins at 2011-11-01

    At first glance, I believe that would be the only winning move in standard EWN, too, for slightly different but related reasons.

  • hanfried_c at 2011-11-01

    No, in standard EWN this position is lost for the first player.

    If I made no mistake this is the only symmetrical position which is lost in a two-stone-endgame.

  • Ingo Althofer at 2011-11-02

    > No, in standard EWN this position is lost for the first player.

    > If I made no mistake this is the only symmetrical position

    > which is lost in a two-stone-endgame.

    The father of sybil_c should be able to shed more light on this.

    He seems to have complete Ewn databases for all positions with up

    to seven stones.

    Sybil_Dad, can you hear us???

    Ingo.

  • sybil_c at 2011-11-02

    I agree with Hanfried. All the other symmetric positions are a win for the player to move. By my quick calculation, there aren't any symmetric 4-stone positions in which the player to move is dead-lost, but there are several in which the player to move is clearly worse. What's interesting is how similar the very worst such 4-stone position looks to the lost 2-stone position.

    A - - - -
    - - - - -
    6 - - - -
    - - - - -
    - - F - 1
    

    The player to move should lose this position just over 5/6 of the time.

  • sybil_c at 2011-11-02

    Ahh… I should spend more time thinking before I post. Hanfried seems to have considered only rotational symmetry, and I'd only considered mirrored. Turns out there's one (after collapsing symmetry along the diagonal) lost to-move 2-stone position from each:

    - - - - -   - A - - -
    A - - - -   - - - - -
    - - - - -   - - - - -
    - - - - -   - - - - -
    - - - 1 -   - - - 1 -
    
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