LCL (Littlegolem Champions League, a Street Soccer RATED Tournament) started TODAY: september, 12th. There are 160 players registered (you can see their names here). I divided them in 16 Leagues of 10 players each. In every League, you will find the FLAGS of the 10 players and the average of their ratings in street soccer.

1- italy (8 italy, 1 france, 1 ukraine) av.1787

2- france (8 france, 1 Czech rep., 1 Belgium) av. 1678

3- poland (10 poland) av.1746

4- Spain (10 spain) av. 1749

5- United Kingdom (10 UK) av. 1723

6- Scandinavia (3 sweden, 3 finland, 2 norway, 1 netherl., 1 russia) av. 1766

7- Mediterranean (2 greece, 2 slovenia, 1 croatia, 1 egypt, 1 saudi arabia, 1 albania, 1 spain, 1 andorra) av.1779

8- South Hemisphere (4 brazil, 2 chile, 2 south africa, 1 italy, 1 colombia) av. 1703

9- Netherlands (10 Netherlands) av. 1719

10 - Rhine League (7 germany, 2 belgium, 1 switzerland) av.1786

11- Central Europe (6 germany, 1 Hungary, 3 switzerland) av. 1916!!

12- DanubeLeague (4 Romania, 3 Slovakia, 3 Hungary) av. 1776

13- Eastern League (10 USA) av. 1725

14- Western League (10 USA) av. 1752

15- Great Lakes (6 USA, 4 Canada) av. 1609

16- Cosmos (lithuania, malaysia, USA, portugal, saudi arabia, ukraine, belgium, romania, germany, turkey). av. 1672

You can see that League 11 (Central Europe) is by far the strongest one. Also strong seem League 1,10,7 and 12. The “weakest” seems to be League 15. The average of the rating of ALL 160 players registered is today about 1,743. Not bad, in my opinion.

Most common flags are:

USA 27

Germany 13

Netherlands, Spain 11

Poland, United Kingdom 10

France, Italy 9

Romania, Brazil, Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, Hungary 4

Sweden, Finland, Slovakia 3

…others with 2 and 1.

what will you do if there are ties for the second place in any leagues?

you might end up with more than 32 total. I propose to just make the next round tournaments accordingly larger.

Proposal/Idea: Plan for 40 participants, not 32. After using potential ties, fill the remaining spaces with the highest point result of all remainders. That would mean that if a player had a really good result, but there were two strong players in his league, he would have another chance. And you would get 10-player-leagues again, which is nice.

Same for the final: Plan for ten instead of eight, for potential ties, and fill up with highest points

I personally love that idea, but you are the decision maker.

For the distribution: I propose to mix them in a way that the first and the second (and potential ties for the second) of any league do not get together into one league in the next round.

“what will you do if there are ties for the second place in any leagues?”

Of course, I considered that it can happen, Aganju. (It seems that here there are only ME and YOU. We could talk via Private Messages, actually). In my opinion, IF two (or more) players have the SAME points and the SAME “SON” in the Second place, we shall consider other numbers.

-First of all, the player who made more points in the direct challenges will be promoted.

-If they have the same points, we consider the goal difference in these “direct challenges” (please suggest me the way to SAY that!), and eventually only the goals SCORED

-if still TIE, the goal difference (or the goals scored) in the ENTIRE League.

Hope it is clear. I am waiting for your opinion, Aganju ;)

@Duke: I think what you're calling “direct challenges” is what's known by sportscasters as the results of “head-to-head play”. It's important in NFL tie-breaking for division championship.

Thank you Marley. I think that the Final Phase should have EXACTLY 32 players, not more. And, of course, the players from the same League (and, if possible, with the same flag) should not play in the same Semifinal League. But now, I have another idea that I want to share with you.

In Europe, the best club 2 or 3 soccer teams of each country are promoted to “Champion League”. But there is another famous Cup. It is called “UEFA Cup” (now, “Europe League”, actually; in the Sixties, Inter-Cities Fair Cup. Somebody of you can remember?).

UEFA cup (I still call it like this) is opened to teams that were 3rd, 4th or 5th in the National Leagues. But (at least in Italy) it can be used in slang for other meanings. For example: “Is your son the best student of his classroom?” “No, I don't think so, but he is in Uefa cup”. Other example: “I know that you are going out with Sheila. Did you win the Championship?” “Not yet. But I'm in Uefa Cup” and so on.

Now, when I imagined LCL, I thought to find 70/80 players. So 32 promotions were fair. But now, with 160… A “UEFA Cup” is necessary. If the 3rd and the 4th of each League are promoted to Uefa Cup, well, there would be 32+32 players that could play more, and fight against other Leagues! That is the 40% of the total.

Of course, Uefa Cup would have 4 Semifinals and a Final, composed by 8 players each, just like his senior brother LCL. And it would not slow down the organization, since it would be played DURING the LCL final phase.

I really love this idea; what do you think about it? Of course, we'll have to find a finer name. I propose “Silver League”, but I'm waiting for yours!

@Duke: I like your explanation, it is more in the spirit of the Champions league. Let the details of the results count.

I also like your second idea, about the UEFA cup. In the real one (as far as I remember) - different countries get different number of slots, based on past successes. Of course we would start equal, but that's something to keep in mind for the far future.

Now I have one other complaint: Most of my games, I'm rolling awfully bad. Something is wrong with the dice, you really need to fix that :-/

I think that with the UEFA cup is a great idea! I also agree that we should have exactly 32 players, you can't promote more players of a league than this league has promotion places (2 each atm).

What are your intentions for the UEFA cup? Is it played just for fun or does it influence how many players get promoted in a league for the next cycle? A possibility would be that only the first players get promoted, that makes 16. Places 2-3 go the the 'barrage' and play in 8 groups of 4, where the 1st and 2nd in the barrage goes to the champions league and the 3rd and 4th go to the Uefa cup. The 4th players of a league goes straight to the uefa cup. The disadvantage of this is that it slows down things.

I thought about the influence of the UEFA cup… If we would apply the barrage system, every league has 1 champions league ticket and 2 barrage tickets, so a potential of 3 champions league places. I would think of something like this then for future cycles: every league gets a direct champions league ticket for each player in the champions league that survives the first round, each league gets a barrage ticket for those who survived the 2nd champions league round and a barrage ticket for those who survive the 2nd UEFA cup round. The 16 UEFA cup tickets and 16 barrage tickets left could be divided equally amongst the leagues. So each league has a minimum of 1 barrage ticket and 1 UEFA cup ticket, what makes it possible to get 1 direct champions league ticket, 3 barrage tickets and 1 uefa cup ticket next round. Just some thoughts, of course DukeOfPrunes has the last word ;-)

I like it UEFA cup should be created too :D And I think maraca system is really good :D Normal Champions league with 8groups each 4players and next 2 go to 1/8 of play offs. But this kind of championship will takes long…

If it wont be that way then I think Aganju sugestion is really good and fair Draws on 2nd 3th etc. places in points and son promote to semifinals of champions league. And even if 5players go to champions league next 2 players go to Uefa cup (not sounds fair :P but I think it would be ok for me and most of players ;)).

@Aganju: don't you know that Members of the site have the “5-faces-die”? I have the same problem. ;-)

You all understood what I have in mind. (More or less.) The Uefa cup is played for fun, of course, but IT INFLUENCES the number of slots for next LCLs! (if there will be.)

I try to explain what I have in mind with numbers. (try to follow). 32 players are promoted to LCL, and 32 to UEFA. Let's say that the winner of LCL gets 100 points. The second 95, 90 and so on… 32 players get some point. IN THE MEANTIME, 32 users play UEFA. The winner will get 60 points. (or 75. or 40. We will see). The second 55, 52 and so on…

Then we ADD all the points that Italy League's players collected. France too. Spain… and so on. THE LEAGUE THAT WILL HAVE the better TOTAL will be the “Winner League”. In the second edition of LCL, this League will have THREE players admitted to final phase of LCL, and maybe 3 in UEFA too. So, playing in a strong league would be “Honorific” and gives more chances to go forward!

It will be hard I think :/ Some leagues are mixed and what if German player from Cosmos league will win and in next LCL play in German league? Next: player will change each LCL and it is even possible that next time we will have only one USA league or no Polish league it's only 2 examples.

And about number of layers we need to clearly decide what if more then 1 player will be on 2nd place in his league. I think that Aganju sugestion is the best :)

@piszczyk: personally, I prefer Duke's solution.

@Duke: I would not appreciate at all if we call the 2nd league “UEFA Cup” even though it was inspired on it. About the metaphoric usage of the name I can clearly see why the same thing won't happen here with the Sulamericana Cup. I also wonder what beeing on the InterToto would mean…

I like Duke's idea with the points. A problem could be, that the leagues with more slots automatically get more points and therefore things barely change. If the points are exponential (example: 100, 75, 56, 42, 32, 24, …) positions are more important than the number of slots a league had. One puzzle still remains: finding a good way to allocate slots according to points. An easy way would be to define a minimum, like 1 slot for each cup and spread the rest of the slots according to the points… (for example: the places 1-2 get +2 for champions league and +2 for UEFA cup, 3-4 get +2 CL +1 UEFA, 5-8 get +1 CL +2 UEFA, 9-12 +1 CL, 13-14 get + 1 UEFA)

@Duke again: personally I'm not very fond of systems were the champion of the 'silver league' gets more points than, e.g., the 5th of the 'golden league'. Actually, I have my doubts about the validity of the champion of the silver league getting more points than the last of the golden one.

@michal: I know it will be hard. We don't know what it will happen in next (?) editions of LCL. But, for now, let's assume that we will have the SAME 16 Leagues. Whether they will change, we'll discuss it. For tie-breakers, read the other topic: LCL Rules.

@Marius: I am just calling it “UEFA Cup” to make you know what I mean. Probably, “Silver League " is more appropriate, although I don't like it so much. (MarleysGhost should propose some idea: he's got a great imagination!) - I think the winner of “Silver League” should get some “Award Points”. Less than the 5th of the “Golden”, of course, but more than the 32th!

Let's make an example. If a player is 3rd in a very strong League (like Central Europe), and then he wins Silver League, he did much BETTER than the player 2nd in a weak League, who lost every game in Golden and was 32th. So I think that the former should get more Award points. Do you agree?

@maraca: I like the System for allocating slots you explained: a Minimum, PLUS a variable part linked to Results. Nice. The other puzzles you talked about are interesting. We shall solve them. Award points for Golden, IMO, should be like this: (100, 95,90,85,80,77,75,73…). I think that the winner of Silver should get more or less the same Award Points AS one player placed 15th-20th in Golden.

Like always, I am waiting for your opinions (Thanks all for taking part to this thread!)

@duke: I do agree if your example but will later offer a counterexample

Or maybe count points separately? Points for Champions League slots and Uefa Cup slots? If 2 players from one league win and be second in Uefa but 2 in Champions league will be last then for example in next LCL this league will have 1 champion league slot and 4 Uefa cup slots? We dont nead to put all points to one box.

Your idea is interesting Michal. But, till now, in my mind there is only ONE total of points for each player, whether he plays in “Golden” or in “Silver”. If you all agree, we will have to fix a “conversion”. I mean, each PLAYER and each LEAGUE will have his own “RATING”, useful for Number of slots and for Seeding.

@Duke I agree with everything (almost ;-). Silver league 1st should get the same as 16th of golden league imho (or 15th-20th). I think that it is important that the 32nd gets 0 (at least for silver league) points, otherwise we really have a problem, that leagues with more slots automatically make more points. So I would propose for golden leage something like this: 100, 92, 85, 79, 73, 68, 63, 58, 54, 50, 46, 42, 39, 36, 33, 30, 28, 26, 24, 22, 20, 18, 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 (1 time -8, 1x -7, 2x -6, 3x -5, 4x -4, 4x -3, 8x -2, 8x -1). Then we would have 30 for 16th. For which I would propose a system like this: 30, 27, 25, 23, 21, 19, 17, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0. This would give the following correlations: 16th gold = 1st silver, 24th gold = 9th silver and 32nd gold = 17th silver.

maraca - your system does not really fit because only places 1-8 are played out (which is good imo), then you have 4x 3rd, 4th, etc. from the semifinals. I think, they should get the same points regardless of their semifinal league.

@muggel_b: The places could be played out in parallel, so it wouldn't delay the CL. But if only 1-8 are played out I would make things easy, start with silver league: 32-9 = 0 points, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 15 and for golden league 32-9 0 points, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23, 26, 30. because like I said: the last places have to get 0 points, otherwise the leagues with more slots automatically make more points.

I don't think that it would be a big deal if Leagues with more slots make more points. And I think that players who are allowed to play in Golden or in Silver should get - at least - 1 point for their presence.

But, if you think that Leagues with more slots have too many advantages for following editions, than I propose 2 possible solutions.

A) if a League has 5 slots, let's say, in final phases (Golden or Silver), instead or 4 (that is the average), than we could consider only their BEST 4 results, discarding the 5th (the worst)

B) Or simply, we could make an AVERAGE of Award Points gained by the 5 players taking part to one of the 2 final phases.

(of course, the SAME if a League has 6 or more slots).

I like maraca's solutions; but perhaps we should create only 2 final tournaments. I mean, Golden 1st-8th place, (of course!) and 9th-16th. But, the 8 players who were in the 5th and 6th place in the 4 SEMIFINALS, in my opinion, will get the SAME points. The same for the 8 who placed in 7th and 8th.

THUS, the award points in Golden would be:

100, 92, 85, 79, 73, 68, 63, 58 The players from 1st to 8th.

-54, 50, 46, 42, 39, 36, 33, 30 from 9th to 16th.

25 points for every player who placed in 5th place in the Semifinals.

20 points for every player who placed in 6th place in the Semifinals.

15 points for every player who placed in 7th place in the Semifinals.

10 points for every player who placed in 8th place in the Semifinals.

Easier, don't you think so? Then, we will have to discuss about Silver points. If you accept my (provisional) proposal, the winer of Silver should get 30 Points (=16th of golden). It is not so much, IMO. He should get more, but we may ask to LCL players what they think about. (it would be kind of you if you'd help me in this. Sending 160 PMs is quite long!) Stay tuned and have fun!

Hi, if nobody wants to comment, I do ;-) I like your ideas. And with this more or less exponential scale it wouldn't be that bad for leagues with few slots. For the 2 propositions: A) I like it, but there's still a drawback for the leagues with few slots, because they only have 2 or 3 results. B) Here's a problem, because if a league has more silver than golden league slots the average is taken down. So as you say, if we score like this I wouldn't use any other equalization method.

How much for 1st of silver league? assumed the minimum for golden league spots is 1 and the maximum 3, those with 3 make automatically at least 20 points more, therefore I would give 20 points to the 16th place of silver league, that would give then something like this:

50 45 41 37 34 32 30 28

27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20

15

10

5

1

Fifty points for the 1st in silver is imho not too much with that scoring system for golden.

… they not make 20 points more, they get at least 20 points “for free”.

Another solution for silver, if the players are not motivated to play for a maximum gain of 7 points:

50 45 41 37 34 32 31 30

20 for 9 to 16th –> those placed 3rd in semifinals.

15

10

5

1

Places 1-8 of silver league would correspond more or less to places 10-16 of golden league.

sorry, 25 for those placed 3rd and 20 for those placed 4th. So silver 9-12 = golden 21-24 and so on…

Ok maraca, I like your examples. Maybe we could assign to the Winner of Golden 100 points, then 92, 86 and so on… and the players of Silver should get EXACTLY the half. So, in this example, 50, 46, 43 and so on. If you agree, the Award points for Golden would be:

100, 92, 86, 80, 76, 72, 68, 66 from 1st to 8th.

-64, 60, 58, 56, 54, 52, 51, 50 from 9th to 16th.

40 points for players in 5th place in every “Semifinal”, so 17th - 20th.

34 for 6th (21th - 24th)

28 for 7th (25th - 28th)

20 for 8th (29th - 32th).

Silver League will assign the HALF of these points. (So the winner will get 50, the second 46 and so on…)

About the second (?) edition of LCL. After the end of 1st edition, of course we will sum the results of the players of every League. I mean, the “Award Points” that they got in Golden and in Silver.

Of course we shall make a League Classification, and -as I previously explained - the Best League will have more slots in Second (?) Edition. By now, every League promotes 2 Players to Golden and 2 to Silver.

In Second Edition, I propose this scheme:

Best League will have 3 players in Golden and 3 in Silver (3+3)

Second League will have (3+2)

3rd: (3+2) too

4th and 5th: (2+3)

6th to 11th: (2+2) like now

12th and 13th: (2+1)

14th and 15th: (1+2)

16th (Last League): (1+1).

That's all. (Of course, Golden and Silver would always have 32 players, with the SAME rules).

I like that idea with half and the distribution of the slots is good for me too. But I like your 'old' scoring system better (the entry of 2010-09-19). Why don't you take just the half of that scoring system for silver league with rounding for odd numbers or with half points, or use the old system for silver and double the points for golden?

I think this proposal is worth being tried. I think it is better than the real system the EUFA uses now, where the 15th country has terrible big advantage to the 17th (suddenly the curve is very steap). Since this system avoids this it is fine for me.

The biggest problem will be how to assign new players to the empty slots left over by leaving players.

what if player resign before the game ends? I mean what if this player will be tied with someone at the end?

Good question. I haven't decided it yet. I think that probably there are 2 options:

- who resign, lose 10-0 (like in SSTT 3), or

- who resign, has a “penalty”. In case of tie with some other player at the end, the player that have more “penalties” loses.

second one is better I think :)

should someone resign in move 42 with a score of 0-3 (and the fear to get more), or is playing to move 52 the preferred behavior ?

I think in chess you should resign, in soccer (real and SSTT3) you should not.

I understand number of goals (and their difference) break a tie, thus your second option implies it's better to resign than to be hit by another goal.

What if a player times out?

I'm voting for no penalty at all (following reason: if you resign you can't get no more goals, but you can't shoot no more goals too… this makes it more or less fair in my opinion), but I can live with everything, because I believe the cases where the son will be equal are very rare.

@Michael X: I understand the opposite, it's good to play your games out (for both propositions). Let's say you get a penalty point for every resign, then the player with more penalty points loses in case of a tie… so it would be better to play the games out.

@maraca: If a penalty point is less than a goal difference, one should rather resign than get another goal.

As an extreme example: If you resign all games immediately, you have a goal score of 0-0, which would be better than losing all games 0-1 (in regular time).

I vote for “resign = score 0-10”, no need to keep track of penalty points.

But I can live with everything as well, including any Golden/Silver award points and slots calculations for LCL2.

0:10 is not fair because most players resign for example when score is 3:0 and 5 moves to end or something like that then why they should lose 10:0?

Penalty is enough I think and only should be used with draws.

I think when someone is timed out the penalty should not be the same as for intentional resignation.

As for resigning the game, score 0-5 should suffice.

I do not see the point to make a disproportionate punishment for such a small misdemeanor.

So I actually agree with maraca.

Thanks all for your precious opinions. @Malaj: I think that timing out should be the same of intentional resignation. (You can't know if somebody… timed out intentionally!)

But maraca is right: “the cases where the son will be equal are very rare”. So I decided that timing out and resigning will be like losing 10-0. But I really don't think that this rule will be applied!

Actually, I think that “Award points” in Golden and Silver will be much more important. And, unfortunately, we will have to discuss about players who will wish to change league in LCL2. Or how assign slots to new players.

I propose to talk about that later; maybe when LCL will be in final phase.

Come on, why would someone EVER want to time out intentionally in an LCL tournament? It does not make sense.

I agree with maraca, again. You should now count how many people would agree with the disproportionate 0-10 punishment. Not many! The opposers are in majority.

I, for one, agree very much with a 10-0 penalty for timing out. As I do for resigning. It's this simple: Don't resign or time out, or you will be penalized!

I propose +10 goals for the opponent of the resigned or timed out player :)

But then you could force a victory by resigning if you lead by 11 goals! ;-)

With the other rule, if one loses by 11-0 (or more), he could get a better result (10-0) by resigning! :)

So, if the difference is more than 10, with either rule, one has a advantage by resigning…

so penality is the best in my opinion

Of course, if somebody is losing 12-0 and he resigns, the final score would be 12-0! and not 10-0. that's EVIDENT.

(I really didn't imagine that this MARGINAL rule would have so many answers. Please NOTE that goals scored are NOT important in LCL. They are just a tie-breaker if POINTS are equal and SON too. And this RARELY happens. SO, I am not going to discuss this secondary rule again!)

I would better discuss with you about Golden and Silver… and how many slots they assign… or about empty slots. But it seems you don't care. OK. I will decide. And I hope you will like it. Have fun!

And, again, SSTT3 has the SAME rule. If I am not wrong. So, I don't understand why this rule would be good for SSTT and “unfair” for LCL. Just play all your games until the end!

SSTT3 has goals as the first tie-breaker after match points, while LCL uses goals only after match points and Son.

In physical sports playing to the end is the norm (except the last half of baseball's ninth inning if the home team is already ahead). In board games resignation is common (although there were checkmates in professional chess games in the 19th century).

So we're saying StreetSoccer is such a good emulation of soccer that we should treat is as a sport rather than a board game.

Ok folks, I decided how to divide the 32 players that will play LCL final phase (also called Golden League).

As you know, there will be 4 Semifinal groups composed by 8 players each. There will be 4 “League winners” and 4 “Second place in League” in EACH.

Then, I decided to use the rating average of every League (you can see it in the top of THIS topic). The winner of Central Europe League will be in #1 seed (it is the strongest League indeed). Italian League winner (a guy from Ucraine, actually…) will be #2. And so on, using the Snake System that we have already used in SSTT3.

So, in LCL Semifinal Golden Group ONE there will be the winners of following Leagues: Central Europe, Eastern USA, Poland and Great Lakes. Then, the players who placed in 2nd place in: Mediterranean, Danube, Netherlands, South Hemisphere.

Group 4 will have the same groups; switched, of course.

In Group TWO will play the winners of: Italy, Western USA, Spain and Cosmos. Second place in: Rhine, Scandinavian, UK and France.

Group THREE = TWO switched.

Of course, Silver League will work EXACTLY the SAME.

Hope it is clear. Feel free to ask anything.

By now, there is only 1 finished League: Scandinavian. Italian League will be over in few days. Bye

What can I do if I am leaving for World Chess Championships, I have no vacation left and I will timeout? It doesn't look too fair :(

Anyways I won't qualify, not enough luck! :)

Somar96, I'm not sure where these championships are taking place, but surely there will be an internet cafe or a public library nearby where you can get internet acess.

well it is in Greece but far away from any civilized place and I doubt I will have time to do so while playing in the Championships!

Good luck in the championships Somar

somar96:

> “… it is in Greece but far away from any civilized place …”

No comments.

Wasn't Greece not the place most Western Europeans are told in history classes civilisation really started?

I mean it's at least a dozen kilometres from any city/town, and I don't think I will have time to find connection either.

:-D

:-(

ok. ther is 1 wireless connection in the whole hotel and it's being used by a few hundred people. it took me ~20 minutes to load anything. but I played in all my games, at least for now

So, there is “civilization” in Greece… ;)

3 days later…I managed to go in again :D

Please notify the dictionarists that 'civilization' has been redefined as 'places where an internet conection is available'. 8-)

for me it has always been so

Are you so young? When I was at university the ComputerScience Geeks were explaining us what email was and showed how they used it….

I am old…

Guess how old (I was 20 back then)

WYCC under 14 …

Seems to be of roughy the same age as my daughters.

Is there a list somewhere of the 16 tournaments that implement LCL's 16 leagues? My tournament has been over for a while and I'm starting to wonder how close to completion the others are.

Only this page, from what I know: StreetSoccer User Tournaments

And also on DukeOfPrunes profil

here

yes folks. My profile is uptated now. Feel free to ask. 6/16 leagues are finished, and in some weeks - i hope - Semifinals groups are going to start!

the situation is now: 8/16 leagues are finished. Many players (nearly 40) have already registered in their Semifinal (there will be 32 in Golden and 32 in Silver).

In the whole 1st round, (in the 16 “national Leagues”, I mean), 1440 games have to be played. Only 48 are missing today. Stay tuned!

Hi,

if I counted correct Mark also reached Golden Round and BlackCat is nearly qualified because of Son-Tiebreaker (think only timeouts can turn the situation).

I am curious of my last move and probably last chance to qualify.

Now that I had a look at the other leagues I'd like to know :

How many spectators we have watching the central europe league ??

Please give a sign if you're watching ! Or are there some stats or Richard around ?

Greetings Taz

I watching all :) Also yours ;)

mark, in netherlands league, is not 100% sure to keep his 2nd place. (IMO). There are many games to play and this could change his SON! OK, he has 98%, but lets wait the end of the League to be SURE.

I hope that in some day every League will be over, then the 8 Semifinal groups will start.

I am glad if my player page is clear and useful to follow how the Tournement is going on. Of course, post here if you have ideas or suggestions to improve it!

Have fun!

Golden semifinal, group 3 is complete. It will start on December, 1st!

we need to know the 2nd player of the following Leagues: UK, Netherlands, Central Europe.

Then, the 3 other Golden Semifinal Leagues will start.

Golden League one group has started and some games are already finished! I also like the idea of the consolation final (play out places 8-16).

Very nice work DukeOfPrunes, especially the fancy colors ;-) In order to not flooding you with messages I am not responding those and just thank you for the organization here.

yes maraca, I just studied a bit of HTML to make LCL more colored and funny. (I hope).

I have some good news for you all (and for my wife, too). All the 16 national Leagues are over!

The 8 semifinal groups, 4 Golden and 4 Silver , are complete and already sterted (or will start in few days)!

here is the message i sent to players who are starting their Semifinal.

“Hello, you know for sure that the 1st and the 2nd of your Golden ♔ Semifinal will play the Golden ♔ Final.

This final round will decide final positions, from 1st to 8th in LCL.

Now I inform you that 3rd and 4th of each Semifinal will play a consolation ♖ final, who will decide final LCL positions, from 9th to 16th!

Players from 5th to 8th in each Semifinal will not be promoted to other steps.

But they will get some Award points, anyway.

Good luck and have fun”!

Hello, you know for sure that the 1st and the 2nd of your Silver ♗ Semifinal will play the Silver ♗Final.

This final round will decide final positions, from 1st to 8th, in LCL Silver League.

Now I inform you that 3rd and 4th of each Semifinal will play a consolation ♘ final, who will decide final Silver positions, from 9th to 16th.

Players from 5th to 8th in each Semifinal will not be promoted to other steps.

But they will get some Award points, anyway.

Good luck and have fun!

All right, my friends, all the 8 LCL Semifinals groups started. 4 Golden♔ and 4 Silver♗.

All of them are formed by 8 players. (As you know, the 1st and the 2nd of Golden groups will be promoted to Golden ♔ Final.)

In the meantime, 3rd and 4th will play a consolation ♖ final. (The same for Silver).

Every player in Golden will get some Award points. Now I decided how many. Let's start with the Final.

The winner of LCL will get 100 Award points. The Second, 94. The 3rd 90. Then 86, 82, 78, 76 and 74 to the 8th.

About the consolation ♖ final: the winner of this group (so, the 9th player of LCL) will get 74 Award points. Then, 70, 66, 62, 58, 54, 50 and 46 to the 16th.

The players who don't reach the Finals will get some Award points too.

Players in 5th position in their Semifinal will get 36 points. Players in 6th position, 30. Then 24 to the 7th and 20 to the 8th.

About Silver♗, the Award points will be exactly the HALF. So, the Winner of the Final will get 50 points. The 2nd 47, then 45, 43, 41, 39, 38, 37.

In consolation ♘ final the 1st (that is, the 9th of Silver ) will get 37, then 35, 33, 31, 29, 27, 25 and 23.

The players who don't reach the Finals will get some Award points too.

Players in 5th position in their Semifinal will get 18 points. Players in 6th position, 15. Then 12 to the 7th and 10 to the 8th.

That's all. Good luck everybody and have fun!

Next LCL editions will be based on the points earned by each League. In fact, best Leagues will have more slots in Golden♔ and in Silver♗!

About next edition (I do realize we haven't still started the final phase), what's the plan? Are we starting next right after this one is finished? Or are we waiting say until it's September again and this shall be an annual event?

Personally, I'd rather we make it annual.

I perceive now that in my previous message, instead ot 'we' I should use 'you' (meaning, of course, DukeOfPrunes), since you had all the Herculean work in organising and running the League, for which I can't thank you enough.

thank you marius, I am glad that you appreciate my efforts!

I would rather start LCL 2 just after the end of LCL 1. If possible. Now, we are waiting for Semifinals groups to finish. Then, I will create the Finals.

And, while (4) finals will be running, I will probably sent PMs to all 160 players (and to somebody else, why not?), asking them if they wish to take part to LCL 2. (Of course, we shall fix the new rules for registrations.)

Of course, every HELP is welcome!

Group 3 is finished! Here are your golden and consolation final players:

1 Luca Bruzzi 54 (Italy)

2 maraca 47 (Rhine League)

---

3 Rex Moore 38 (?)

4 Igor 34 (?)

They are both USers. Rex played the eastern US qualifying group, while Igor played Cosmos'

that is exact Marius. Thanks for help.

Golden Semifinal Group 2 is finished too.

My Player page is updated!

I have just become the first player to register for the LCL Golden Final. On behalf of the other Great Lakes players whom I represent in this tournament, I would like to recall the words of Commodore Oliver Perry, hero of the Battle of Lake Erie, “If a victory is to be gained, I will gain it.”

That was from the War of 1812. You have to go back 200 years to find armed conflict on the Great Lakes.

And I was the first one to register to the Silver final. I also hope to be a faithful - along with Lastra in the Golden final (and possibly Ricardo Santos) - representative to the Southern Hemisphere and, specially, to Brazil.

Yep. As you can see, I choose March, 1st as the starting date of both.

I hope that every Semifinal will be over; otherwise, I will change the day. Have fun!

Hello, I need some help about LCL 2 Rules.

You should know that best Leagues will have more slots in Golden or in Silver's next Editions. Now, the question is: what should we do, since probably the 16 LCL 2 Leagues won't be exactly like they were in LCL 1.

Just an example to show you my doubts.

Let's say that the 4 Players from Rhine League will get a lot of Award points in LCL 1. BUT, in LCL 2, these 4 strong players wish to change League, or they just don't register. So, should we still consider Rhine League like the “Best League”, thus promoting 6 Players in Golden and Silver 2, or it would be the “Last”?!

In other words.

A- The 16 LCL 2 Leagues will have their “benefits” based on the results of THEIR Players in LCL 1. No matter WHO registers in LCL2.

B - Or maybe, the 16 Leagues will have their “benefits” based on the results of their NEW players. No matters in which League these players have played in LCL1.

C- (Luca's proposal): NOT LETTING the players change their League.

D- The simplest one. Every League ALWAYS promotes 4 players.

Sorry if it is not clear. (I admit that there is confusion in my mind).

Thanks to everyone who read THIS post. And many thanks to you, if you try to suggest a solution!

Have fun!

I think C is the best option but I could also live with A. D is absolutely no option for me.

I agree with muggel_b, however C is a little bit too strict for me. I would allow players to change leagues, but only if there is a reason for it (for example if you play in the Rhine league, but you are actually German and want to play for a German team). I would also allow players to switch leagues, if it helps to balance the group sizes. The places should still be tied to leagues and not to players.

A similar problem exists for new players… I would let them join the league which suits them best or the leagues with the fewest players. There shouldn't be any problem if the leagues aren't exactly the same size, but maybe there has to be a rule that prevents too small or too big leagues…

Hmm there exists no German league, but I hope you get it anyway what I'm trying to say.

The Silver ♗Final will start on March, 21th.

Eight players will compete (with their today's rating and their League):

Talizess (1928), Central Europe

spd_iv (1829), Poland

PHILOUXX (1778), France

Hans-Peter (1846), Great Lakes

MRFvR (1826), South Hemisphere

kurtz (1886), Italy

gpallis (1785), United Kingdom

Kunokloetzer (1917), Rhine.

Enjoy!

Hello, LCL Consolation ♘ Final is complete. It will start on March, 24th. (link.) Enjoy!

Unfortunately, Gregorlo probably left Littlegolem. So Nagy Fathy, the 5th player in Silver Semifinal group 1, will substitute him.

Hello! Again, nice work! But there is a problem, because Gregorio and Nagy Fathy or not in the same league. So it would be better in my opinion to play the Consolation Final with 7 players and place Gregorio 8th, otherwise the Spanish league loses points and Nagy Fathy's league gets points for free.

This is a point of view. I had another. I don't know who is right, anyway it is too late!

The Final will start tomorrow, with 8 players.

I am sorry for spanish players, they will lose some point.

But I think that if a nation withdraw from the World Cup, FIFA would promote another team, right?

They just wouldn't play the Final Phase with only 31 teams instead of 32.

But it's just my opinion.

I'm with the Duke on this one. The StreetSoccer custom is to play a game to the bitter end (unlike, say, Chess, where not resigning a lost game is bad form), never quit and never withdraw. The Mediterranean League deserves whatever points they get from this substitution because they played almost well enough to get Gregorio's position on the merits AND they didn't withdraw.

If it's not justice, well, it's just sport, not the Supreme Court. And it's not even sport, just a game that simulates sport, and greater injustices are perpetrated by the die rolls. :-)

I agree there would be a replacement, but the replacement could be the one who placed 5th in Spanish League, then the points for the leagues wouldn't change. However I can live with the other solution too.

okay, after I read Marleys post I still have to say some words:

Marley is right with the resigning, BUT you have to consider that ONLY Gregorio should be punished, not the whole Spanish league (they probably want Gregorio to play on). And it is pure luck that the Mediteranian League gets this place, other leagues hadn't any withdrawing player too, but not the luck that Gregorio was in their group, there are 3 other groups where the 5th player could be the lucky one… Now you maybe see my point, the current replacement is the easiest way to do it, but not the most fair in my opinion.

I do understand maraca's point. I specially appreciate the fact that other Spaniards should not be punished by Gegorio's withdrawal. But, on the other hand, IMHO, the chosen substitution is the correct one, since any player placed 5th-8th in any Silver Semifinal deserves more to be the replacer than the 5th player in original Spanish League. Being so, the chosen is the obviously natural one. The only viable alternative (as I see it) would have been doing no substitution at all.

Yes MRFvR you are right, the 2nd thought was wrong, the replacement is the best to choose amongst all qualification groups. For me the only other alternative would be (as already sad) to substitute with a player of the same league that didn't promote (he should play worse than the promoted one, so a little bit of punishment is still there)… okay I am repeating myself, I shut up about this minor issue now.

Hello. As you can see here,

the Golden ♔ Final is complete.

It will officially start on March, 28th.

Enjoy!

Here is the list of the “fabulous Eight”, with their today's rating and their League.

Ricardo (Santos) (1812), South Hemisphere

steve1964 (1892), Eastern States

Cutt (1997), Spain

Black Cat (1935), United Kingdom

Luca Bruzzi (2031), Italy

Juan Pablo Lastra (1826), South Hemisphere

maraca (1939), Rhine

MarleysGhost (1926), Great Lakes.

All the 4 Finals are running now.

I think that it's time to start working on LCL 2.

I will probably create the same 16 Leagues, and then I will look for the players. I'll try to find at least 160, like in LCL 1.

Enjoy!

Cool! Thank you. You're doing a good job!

This is my vote on the question above:

1st A, 2nd C, 3rd B

(I don't want to vote for D)

Thank you Ricardo. Yeah, I think that A is the better choice.

Today I decided to start working on LCL 2.

The first step is… creating League 1, Italy. (Link).

If anybody would like to register… just send me a Private Message and I will give you the Password.

In the next days I will create the other 15 Leagues.

Enjoy!

Yes my friends, I am working hard in these days. I have to create the Leagues, send a lot of Private Messages to inform all of you, waiting for your answer and then send the right link and password in order to register in the preferred League.

I hope that LCL 2 will be more funny, more colored and even more great than **LCL 1.

I decided a tiny change of the rules. Previously, the slots for the 16 Leagues were: 6-5-5-5-5-4-4-4-4-4-4-3-3-3-3-2.**

Now I changed my mind. (I can do that, I am the “Sepp Blatter” of LCL!) It seems unfair to me that the last League had only two promotions. So, the 11th will lose one slot, and the 16th will gain one.

Therefore, in LCL 2 the 16 Leagues will promote the following players:

First: 3 in Golden and 3 in Silver .

Second and Third: 3+2.

4th and 5th: 2+3.

6th to 10th: 2+2.

11th to 13th: 2+1

14th to 16th: 1+2.

That's all (by now).

(I remember that the classification of the Leagues is based only on the results of their players in Semifinals and Finals of LCL1).

Enjoy!

Current LCL Ranking is something like :

placeleagueMinMaxActive Players1South Hemisphere20026532Rhine17323933Italy17221124Great Lakes17020925Eastern States15120426United Kingdom15419327Mediterranean14517218Central Europe13217229Spain140166110France124164211Netherlands112139112Cosmos104131113Danube87114114Poland100113115Scandinavia103103016Western USA97970

Thanks a lot Talizess. Probably somebody realized that the 16 Leagues, in LCL 2, will be composed of 11 players instead of 10.

Someone left the site, someone else refused to participate to LCL 2.

But I am glad to have more players registered than the first edition. (About 170 instead of 160).

Hence, I have to make 11-players Leagues. (11*16 Leagues = 176 total players).

We are not yet 176, but I hope that in few days we will.

In your opinion… we should wait LCL 1 to be over, or we could start (if ready) the second edition as soon as possible? Thank you all for supporting!

Although I'm finished with all my games, I personally think we should wait.

Ok my friends, we are almost 176 now.

I have to show you a new rule. There will be more promotions in LCL 2!

In LCL 1, 40% of the players had a promotion (in Golden or in Silver), that is 64 players.

I try to keep the same percentage. Thus, there will be 72 promotions! 8 more.

So… I decided to create a new little League: Bronze League! Only 8 players will play in it, only the Final. (Yep, no Semifinals.)

This is the Table that will show you the exact number of promotions.

LeaguesGoldenSilverBronzeTotal1st32162nd32053rd32054th23055th23056th22157th22158th22049th220410th220411th220412th211413th211414th121415th121416th1214Total3232872

(thank you Talizess!)

This is only an approximation of the Award Points of the 16 Leagues in LCL 1.

Of course, it cannot be accurate, because the 2 Golden Finals are not finished yet.

Ranking (average):

1- South H. 236

2- Rhine 202

3- Italy 191

4- Great Lakes 181

5- United Kingdom 178

6- Eastern USA 173

7- Central Europe 158

8- Mediterranean 158

9- France 143

10- Spain 140

11- Netherlands 125

12- Cosmos 117

13- Poland 104

14- Scandinavia 103

15- Danube 100

16- Western USA 97.

LCL 2 registrations are close now.

There are 176 players registered, 11 in each League.

I will post now some (useless) statistics.

I know that everyone can change their flag in every moment; anyway, this is how the flags are today.

1- Italy: 10 Italy, 1 France.

2- France: 9 France, 1 Belgium, 1 Czech Rep.

3- Poland: 10 Poland, 1 Unknown

4- Spain: 11 Spain

5- UK: 8 UK, 1 Ireland, 1 Belgium, 1 Germany

6- Scandinavia: 4 Norway, 2 Sweden, 2 Finland, 1 Russia, 1 Netherlands, 1 Germany.

7- Mediterranean: 2 Slovenia, 2 Greece, 2 Spain, 1 Egypt, 1 Croazia, 1 Turkey, 1 Europe, 1 Saudi Arabia.

8- South Hemisphere: 3 Brazil, 2 Chile, 1 Argentina, 1 South Africa, 1 USA, 1 Czech Rep, 2 Unknown.

9- Netherlands: 9 Netherlands, 2 Germany.

10- Rhine: 7 Germany, 2 Belgium, 1 Switzerland, 1 USA.

11- Central Europe: 5 Germany, 3 Switzerland, 1 Bhutan, 1 Japan, 1 Poland.

12- Danube: 4 Slovakia, 3 Romania, 3 Hungary, 1 Germany

13- Eastern USA: 11 USA.

14- Western USA: 11 USA.

15- Great Lakes: 5 Canada, 4 USA, 1 France, 1 unknown.

16- Cosmos: 2 Usa; 1 each: Spain, Belgium, Slovenia, Saudi Arabia, Vanuatu, Thailand, Malaysia, Estonia, Ukraine.

Nice work! Now it will be interesting how the scoring system works in a 'normal' cycle, where the leagues don't have an equal number of promotions. Did you already think about the points for the bronze league? It's somewhat difficult, because not every league promotes someone to the bronze league, so some leagues can't get any points from there. I would suggest about 20 for the first one.

Or just golden / 4

Just like always, maraca, you made the right question.

I propose that Bronze League will give these points:

30, 27, 24, 21, 18, 16, 14, 10. Or something like that.

Let me explain. Golden grants 1600 award point, so an average of 50 points to every “Golden” player.

Silver, of course, exactly the half. So 800 points with an average of 25.

Bronze will (probably) grant 160 award points (the average is 20).

I have some good idea for scoring points in LCL 2, but I will discuss later.

just my 2 cents:

I don't like the bronze league.

I often said that LCL is a lot of fun,

but that 2nd “Looser league” is a little bit too much.

Silver league indeed feels indeed like UEFA Cup or now called European league.

There it would be even more thrilling to play a league with all 11th placed.

The looser of that league has to pay some bottle of beers to the golden league winner ;-)

Lol, Talizess. Funny idea, but often the 11th placed in every League are Players-Who-Left-The-Site.

Thus, it would be hard founding them to explain that they ought to pay some beers!

I am sorry that you don't like newborn Bronze League. Let me tell you the reason why I decided to create it.

Having 176 instead of 160 players registered is good, I am sure that you agree. Keeping 64 promotions seemed unfair to me.

I felt like I had to increase this number. I had 2 choices:

A - Changing the structure of Golden and/or Silver. B - Creating a new little League. I choose the latter, but of course I will consider every opinion. Nothing is definitive!

Just for curiosity… when I was a child (I mean, about 25 years ago) existed a cup, called Mitropa Cup ( Wiki link).

The clubs winners of the Second Division of many European Countries were allowed to play it.

Now, as you said, Golden is similar to Champions League, Silver = Uefa Cup and, finally, Bronze League could be a sort of Mitropa.

Don't forget that it is a tiny League, only 8 players. No semifinal, they will just play their Final. That's all.

(Last thing… with Bronze League, I might have a little chance to be “promoted”!)

DukeOfPrunes: It isn't easy with Luca Bruzzi in the same league ;)

I can live with your point distribution, but let me explain how I see the math:

15th of gold = 1st of silver

15th of silver = 25 points, that would be exactly golden / 4, so I would give the first of the bronze league 25 points.

We have only 8 players, so I think the first half should get points corresponding to a real final and the lower half points corresponding to the lower half of the qualification to a final. If we use the golden / 4 rule this would give 5 points for the last player. Now that we have the boundaries we just make a more or less exponential distribution:

25 20 16 13 10 8 6 5

But I see also reasons to take your lower boundary 10, because the silver promoters get automatically 10 points for doing nothing, why shouldn't a bronze promoter not get 10 points for doing nothing. Just 30 for the first I think is a little bit too much.

I have nothing against the Bronze league, if the amount of players significantly increases it can be expanded and then there are 3 full leagues.

If the work becomes too much: Every league could have a manager who is responsible for inviting players to tourneys and ask them if they want to participate again, then you would only have to contact 1 member of each league.

An idea - perhaps the title holder should automatically qualify for Gold the next time around (like Liverpool in 2005/6).

Just to complete the previous topic, about flags.

Most common flags are:

USA 30

Germany 17

Spain 14

France 11

Poland 11

Italy 10

Netherlands 10

UK 8

Canada 5

Belgium 5

Norway 4

Switzerland 4

Slovakia 4

Brazil 3

Slovenia 3

Romania 3

Hungary 3

Czech Rep. 2

Chile 2

Sweden 2

Finland 2

Greece 2

Saudi Arabia 2

Others 19. That's all

About Bronze League. I think that you are right, maraca, it should be somehow Golden/4 (or Silver/2).

I agree that 30 points for the winner would be too much; 25 is perfect.

I propose: 25, 20, 16, 12, 9, 7, 6, 5. Like this, Bronze would grant 100 Award Points, that is (100/8= 12.5) average points/player. Notice that it's Golden/4, again.

maraca said: “If the work becomes too much…“. By now, I can do it.

Your idea is nice, but Leagues aren't closed. Players can switch to another League, if they wish.

One thing that I may need is somebody who helps me to send Private Messages. (Yes, probably it is the most boring part).

I usually try to send PMs to all 160 players (now 176), to explain how LCL is going on, what's next and which are the results.

I like to do that, but it's quite long. If someone helps, I'd really appreciate!

About the idea of gpallis. Luca made the same proposal!

But I don't think that it's a good idea, Golden is for 32 players. Somebody should lose his slot? Or should I create a 33 players League?

This proposal would give me too many problems. And, after all, who won LCL should get to following Golden League without difficulties!

I know, it's too early. But just to chat.

Now, it is quite easy to decide which is the best League. You just have to add the Award points of the 4 players who played Golden & Silver.

But after LCL 2… it will not be so easy: some League will have 5 promotions, some 4. Some League will promote a player to Bronze League, others won't. The solution?

My proposal is to create a Rating for each League. it will be expressed in percentage. You just divide the Award points gained / maximum a League could reach.

I will explain better with an example.

Eastern USA is the 6th League, so (see above) 2 players will be promoted to Golden, 2 to Silver an 1 to Bronze.

The max they 5 players should gain is: 100 + 100 + 50 + 50 + 25. BUT they'll get 90 + 20 + 45 + 25 + 6. Not bad!

How can we express it with a rating? Easy. 186/325 = 57.23 %. THIS will be the only number to compare, to prepare the Rankings!

And now, I will shut up and wait for your considerations (if any). Have fun!

I agree with everything, I just don't get why we shouldn't just sum up the points in future cycles. That's the reason why I thought the points have to be exponential, so that 1 player in golden can easily make as many points as 2 players together in golden league, if they don't play too good. Although I think this performance measure of yours is an interesting number, it seems to be unfair to me, for example leagues with more golden than silver promotions have a disadvantage, because in the golden league you can lose more points compared to the first and the players there should be stronger. Okay if we sum up the points, it is not very likely that someone goes from last to first, but it should be possible in about 3 cycles.

Btw. it's almost 100% sure that Luca Bruzzi is gonna win LCL 1 and I'm going to be 2nd, 3rd is still open. Congratulations Luca!

maraca, I will tryto explain better my “Rating” number with an example, although this discussion is not urgent.

Let's say that League A promotes 2 players in Golden. They don't do very well: only 30+42=72 Award points. In the meantime, League B promoted 1 player in Silver and 1 in bronze. They played good: 45 (2nd place in silver) and 25 (Bronze winner). So, 70. I think that you agree that B did better than A, but if we just sum the Award points, A gained more. It seems unfair.

That is why I thought to this coefficient and I called Rating (please, suggest a better name!)

You are right, maraca, when you are afraid that the last League in LCL 2 could be the first in LCL 3. It should not happen. In fact, in LCL 3 (this is just my proposal) we'll consider the Rating of LCL 2 and the Rating of LCL 1. But LCL 2 will have more weight! Let's say, 60/40, or 70/30.

You see, maraca, summing all the Award points seems a good and easy solution. But consider that probably there will not be two LCL editions with the same number of players. Maybe next time 128, or 192, who knows? Bronze League might grow, or be cancelled.

I did think a lot about it, (yes, I drive 1 hour and half / day to move to job). And believe me, I think that “Rating” coefficient is the best solution. Anyway, please keep on sending suggestions! Thank you!

I see what you mean, but I'm not really sure if this is a scenario that's likely gonna happen, because you allocated the promotion slots in a clever way: if league A is better placed than league B, league A gets always more or as much golden slots as B, also A gets always more or as much silver slots as B if the number of golden slots is equal and of course the same for bronze if the number of silver slots is equal. And every team has at least 1 golden and 1 silver slot.

An example that could happen would be 16th 1-2-1 and 6th 2-2-1: let's say like before the 16th got 70 points from one silver and one bronze player, the other team got 72 points from the 2 weak golden players, but now the 6th has 2 silver and 1 bronze left and the 16th has 1 silver and 1 golden league player left, it depends very much on their performance, and 16th has a significant advantage now over 6th (16th makes on average 75 additional points and 6th 62 additional points). Also if the silver and the bronze player were already that good, the left silver and golden player should easily make more points than 2 silver and a bronze player.

I think maraca is right, since the “rating” system advantages too much the lower leagues (ok, this gets better if you sum up LCL1 and 2, but stil…). There is no more sense in the fact that winner of the Golden league gets 100 points and the winner of the Bronze league gets only 25, as their percentage is the same, 100%. All discussion above (how many points for the Bronze league), is thus getting completely nonsense.

Moreover, in the example above, I do not agree “that B did better than A”, because Silver League simply is not at the same level as the Bronze league. It is much much more easy to get points in the Bronze one than in the Silver one. A did better than B, simply because it got promoted to the Silver. In the final ranking, A will finish higher.

Finally, what is the system in the real Champions League and European League? I do not know, but I bet that winner of CL will get more points for his country than the winner of the EL.

To sum up, I think that it is better to just sum up all the points for the LCL2 (and add to it some part of the LCL1 points too), because

it does not disadvantages the higher leagues

including percentages makes nonsense giving the points (to some extend)

people from the higher leagues merit more points

and finally, I think it is more similar to the reality

Sorry if I missed something

thank you Hayashi. You both are probably right, I feel a bit confused now.

But I still think that, if we just sum up the Award points, it would be very hard for the lower Leagues to go higher. A new player, (if informed,) would request of course to register in “South Hem.“, for example, rather than in “Cosmos”.

We'll have to find fair rules to settle the Rankings in LCL 3. (We have time. LCL 1 lasted about 9/10 months!)

Just some statistics now.

In LCL 2, as you know, there will be 176 players. 132 (75%) participated to LCL 1 , too. (8 of them asked to change their League).

And then, we have 44 new players! Welcome all, I hope you will enjoy LCL 2.

28 players did register< in LCL 1 and not in LCL 2. 14 of them left the site, and 14 refused my invitation for various reasons.

That's all. Have fun!

HayashiMinoru: If we sum up, I think the advantage of a better placed league is already big enough, if we include results from previous cycles, the advantage gets even bigger, so I wouldn't do that.

DukeOfPrunes: I agree that's a problem that new players want to go to stronger leagues, but that's always the case if we have different amounts of slots. On the other hand in a lower placed league are weaker players, so the chance is not nessessairily smaller to get promoted, it can even be bigger (ex: 1800 player wants to join a new league: A is better placed and has 6 1900 players and 5 1700 players, league B is lower, but has 11 1700 players and therefore the 1800 player would be the best in that league). So choose your league wisely ;-) Maybe we could introduce some rule that only allows you to change the league after 3 cycles, except if the change helps to balance group sizes.

maraca, I think that you are right, once more ;)

Resuming, you propose that the the slots assigned in a LCL edition are based only on the results (i.e. the SUM of Award Points) of the previous Edition. Is this correct?

I wouldn't introduce rules about changing/registering Leagues: by now, I will keep it easy. All the players I met asked to be placed in a League, but they always accepted another (that they liked) if there was no room.

I still think that Leagues should have the same size, and you LG players are helping me a lot. Thank you all, and

Enjoy!

Congrats to Luca Bruzzi, the 1st LCL Winner!

Congrats to Luca Bruzzi! Congrats to Talizess (winner of the silver league) too! And thanks to all fellow LCLers for all the fun during the whole series. 8-)

Maraca: yes, there is advantage, but only for the one concrete LCL. For future LCL's, including percentage is on the contrary disadvantageous. I agree it is not a good idea to get the advantage too big, but definitely being placed better should not disadvantage a league in future LCL's, in my opinion…

With the new players, I totaly agree, more slots doesn't necessarily mean bigger chance to get promoted (for a new player).

(And CONGRATS, Luca Bruzzi! :-))

clap to Luca Bruzzi.

The Italian team must be very proud.

HayashiMinoru: Yes, I haven't said it clearly, but I agree with you.

Congrats again to Luca and all the participants. Is the best league already decided? Anyway the Southern Hemisphere was quite a surprise!

One last rule proposition: If you resign/time out more than half of your games, then you lose all games. It's just unfair for those players against the one didn't time out, they don't get the free 10 points bonus (and 10 goals).

Good luck to everyone in LCL 2!

maraca, I disagree with your last proposal. We all play in Littlegolem, and we follow its rules.

There always are player who forfeit, during the Championships too.

We know that it disadvantages fast players, but unfortunately there is nothing to do about it. Sorry.

About the Leagues, South Hemisphere is quite sure to be the 1st League, Rhine 2nd and Italy 3rd.

I will let you know as soon as possible (I am following every unfinished match and updating results).

It is not such a surprise, if you think that… Brazil is still the strongest Soccer Team in the world! (Italy and Germany are following!)

Actually, as true it might be that Brazil is stronger in Football (and South America also includes Argentina and Uruguay, to begin with), LG SS is more of an European endeavor. LG Top 20 ratings include (right now) 4 U.S.ers, 3 Germans, 2 Swiss, 2 Polish, 1 Italian, 1 Japanese, 1 Uruguayan, 1 European, 1 Slovakian, 1 Norwegian, 1 French, 1 Irish and 1 Finnish. From that one would expect that a US-league or a German league would be the first in LG. But, as they don't have a single league, but many of them, their strength got diluted and polluted. BTW Rhine league is 70% German

Of course, Marius, I was just joking.

I am adding Award points, and I just realized that…

South Hemisphere League won LCL 1!

Congrats to all the 10 players, and in particular to Ricardo (Santos) and J.P. Lastra, who reached the Golden Final, and to MRFvR, 3rd in the Silver Final.

Lucimara gained 15 Award points, MRFvR 45, Ricardo and JP at least 158!!

There is not another League that can do so well. So, they are 1st ranked for LCL 2.

This means that they will promote 6 players! 3 in Golden, 2 in Silver and 1 in Bronze.

Later I will give you more details: by now, I just tell you that Rhine and Italy are 95% Second and Third League, so they will promote for sure 5 players, 3 in Golden and 2 in Silver.

Just a rule detail: I haven't told you yet, but I think that it's obvious.

If two (or more) Leagues gained the same Award points, the tie-breaker will be the player who gained more Award points.

So, If Italy and Rhine will have 198 each, (yes, it could happen), I think that you agree that Italy would be 2nd and Rhine 3rd, because… we have Luca! (and you don't, nah nah nah)

I agree DukeOfPrunes, but you're the only league to which we lose the tie breaker :)

Also congrats to South Hemisphere!

I post another (provisional) ranking: (in boldface the Leagues that have definite score).

1 - South Hemisphere : 227

2- Rhine: 204

3- Italy: 198

4- Great Lakes: 182

5- UK: 174

6- Eastern States: 167

7- Central Europe: 162

8- Mediterranean: 158

9- Spain: 140 (Yes, Spain is sure about his 9th position in the rankings. It means: 2 players in Golden and 2 in Silver).

10- France: 131

11- Netherlands: 125

12- Cosmos: 121

13- Poland: 104

14- Scandinavia: 103

15- Danube: 102

16- Western States: 97

That's all - by now.

Congratulations to Luca Bruzzi, who graciously defeated me in two quite congenial Golden Final games.

And congratulations to the South(ern) Hemisphere. Pelé would be pleased.

I decided to move the starting date of LCL 2 some day forward.

It will (probably) start on June, 6th. (The D-Day).

The 2 Golden Finals are quite finished, and maybe they will be almost over in the first days of June.

Moreover, I need some days more, to calculate (and control) the sum of Award points. (I'd really appreciate if someone else makes the addictions, in order to avoid mistakes!)

Thanks all!! I'm very happy to be the first LCL winner!!

Congrats to Talizess (winner of the silver league), to the South Hemisphere and all the participants.

Good luck to everyone in LCL2!!

pos.Leagues?1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th to 11th1South. Hemis.GGGSSB/2Italy?GGGSS//3Rhine?GGGSS//4Great Lakes?GGSSS//5United Kingdom?GGSSS//6Mediterranean?GGSSB//7Eastern US?GGSSB//8Central Europe?GGSS///

pos.Leagues?1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th to 11th9SpainGGSS///10Netherlands?GGSS///11France?GGSS///12Cosmos?GGSB///13Danube?GGSB///14Poland?GSSB///15Scandinavia?GSSB///16Western USGSSB///

This is the situation today:

There are 5 matches to finish in Golden Final, and 3 in Golden Consolation.

Nevertheless, I decided that LCL 2 will start on June, 6th (next monday).

As you can see, I still don't know exactly how many slots there will be for every League.

But I don't think that it's a problem; when LCL will be over, I will tell you (to all of you) the results, and the details, and the statistics, and everything.

So… let's play. Good luck everyone! And - 175 times - thank you to participate in LCL 2!

We now have the winners of the 4 Finals of LCL 1.

Golden ♔ Final Luca Bruzzi; Consolation ♖ Final: Burton.

Silver ♗Final: Talizess; Consolation ♘ Final: Cane.

Slots in LCL 2 (Official table):pos.Leagues1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th to 11th1South. Hemis.GGGSSB/2ItalyGGGSS//3RhineGGGSS//4Great LakesGGSSS//5Utd. KingdomGGSSS//6MediterraneanGGSSB//7Eastern USGGSSB//8Cent. EuropeGGSS///

pos.Leagues1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th to 11th9SpainGGSS///10FranceGGSS///11CosmosGGSS///12NetherlandsGGSB///13DanubeGGSB///14PolandGSSB///15ScandinaviaGSSB///16Western USGSSB///

I post now a Table with official LCL 1 Golden results.

1Luca Bruzzi_100_Italy2maraca_94_Rhine3Black Cat_90_UK4MarleysGhost_86_Great Lakes5Ricardo (Santos)_82_Southern H.6Steve 1964_78_Eastern Us7Juan Pablo Lastra_76_Southern H.8Cutt_74_Spain9Burton_74_Danube10ypercube_70_Mediterranean11Igor_66_Cosmos12tigis_62_Central Eu.13Rex Moore_58_Eastern Us14FC Mzungu_54_Netherlands15Rumpelfamilie_50_Rhine16shrcl_46_France17David_36_Mediterranean17jim OWestern US17fhsIVWestern US17chiantiCentral Eu.21isketzo67_30_Spain21makdk9Italy21HayashiMinoruFrance21royalflushGreat Lakes25Looser_24_Poland25ak57Scandinavia25Richard PijlScandinavia25p_a_k_oPoland29Mark_20_Netherlands29Gintautas MiselisCosmos29RobUK29DiscipleDanube

Perfect guide!

Great job Duke! ;-)

posLeagueAward ptsGoldenSilverSlots in LCL2GSB1Southern Hem.2188276451563212Italy19810030373153203Rhine1989450391553204Great Lakes1838630382952305UK1809020472352306Mediterranean1687036352752217Eastern US1667858181252218Central Eu.160623650124220

posLeagueAward ptsGoldenSilverSlots in LCL2GSB9Spain14074301818422010France12946304310422011Cosmos12366202512422012Netherlands11954203312421113Danube11474201010421114Poland10424244115412115Scandinavia10324243718412116Western States97363615104121

Remember that you can find ALL the LCL 1 Results in this page.

And in my profile too. Obviously.

Nice work, maybe we should rename the LCL to rainbow league ;-)

Btw. I don't know the snake system, but does it avoid that 2 players of the same league get promoted to the same group?

Yes, of course. If the “snake system” will not work properly, I will adjust it.

I mean, two players of the same League will never play in the same Semifinal.

Bronze (LCL 2)posAw. pts12522031641259677685_total_100

I will now post (just to answer to maraca's question) a table that shows the next LCL 2 Semifinals.

You can read the players that will be promoted in all the 8 semifinal groups, and the Bronze final.

Assume that the 16 Leagues are called ABCD, EFGH, LMNP, RSTV.

So, if I say 3E, i mean that it will be the 3rd Ranked player in the 5th League, that is UK. (I hope that it is clear).

Golden Semifinal 11A1H1L1V2B2G2M3CGolden Semifinal 21B1G1M1T2A2H2L2RGolden Semifinal 31C1F1N1S2D2E2P3BGolden Semifinal 41D1E1P1R2C2F2N3ASilver Semifinal 12S3H3L3T4A4G4M5ESilver Semifinal 22T3G3M3V4B4H4L5DSilver Semifinal 32V3F3N3S4D4E5A5CSilver Semifinal 43D3E3P3R4C4F4N5BBronze Final4P4R4S4T4V5F5G6A

As you can see, there will not be 2 players from the same League that will play in the SAME Semifinal.

LCL 1 is finished!

(Only 1 game missing, actually, but it should not affect Rankings).

You can find everything in this web Littlegolem page. (Updated).

I am late to the discussion, and have skimmed the conversation, so apolgize in advance if I'm covering old ground.

It appears the slotting system creates a “rich get richer” scenario. For example, even if you were to assume the Western States and Southern Hemisphere players were evenly matched, and results were also on average, the Southern Hemisphere would again earn more points/slots simply by virtue of the fact they had more to begin with.

It seems to me that the higher group would have to underperform significantly and the lower group have an unbelievably good tournament to affect even a small change in the order.

Whether you choose to stick with this methodology for LCL3 or not, it will be an interesting exercise, if applied, to see how the group standings are affected. My bet is we will see little movement in the order, and it would take many years for a group to move from one half of the bracket to the next.

I am in the Western States bracket and expect I will have to win, and win, and win, and win, and hope my my colleagues do the same to have much hope of rising to say, 11th position where the extra Gold and Silver slots present more opportunity for success.

thanks for posting, fhsIV.

Actually, it is not decided yet how slots in LCL 3 will be assigned. (But we have about 8 month to discuss it!)

Anyway, I think that you are right. My opinion is that we should try to balance, or it will be very hard for lower leagues (like Western US) to climb the rankings.

I still think that the better solution would be: A ranking based on the percentage of the Award Points gained by each league in the previous Editions.

Waiting for your suggestions!

I think adding works just fine. It's normal that if you have fewer spots the chances are lower, but the chance to win isn't non-existent. And I never saw that a country suddenly gets 3 slots more, just one at a time (just happended to Switzerland lately), so this is standard scenario. fhsIV the rich don't get richer, there is no kind of accumulation of slots or something. Certainly the average is lower, but because the scale is +- exponential, what is important are the high placements. So you can look at it like the team with more slots gets an extra chance to make a high score, but if they both fail, you can easily beat them both.

This was actually the reason why I wanted to go to 0 for last places of gold/silver/bronce league, because that reduces the advantage of more slots. I still think it's easy enough to go some places higher in the ranking and there is no need for balance (and I don't say this because I'm playing in the Rhine League!).

I have a suggestion to make: to weight the groups performances, instead of dividing a group total points per the maximum possible points achievable, as formerly proposed, I propose it should be divided per the total number of groups played by the players forming each league. In this scenario players that won't qualify for golden/silver/bronze leagues will add 1 to the divider, players qualifying bronze final or golden/silver semifinal will add 2 to the divider and players in golden and silver final will add 3 to the divider.

Ehm yes, you can suggest tons of new systems, but you should add some reasons why this is a good system and why should we use it?

Adding as already said, comes closest to the reality I think and it's very easy to do. Also like Hayashi already said, the whole discussion about the points would've been useless with some kind of performance measure.

Actually the whole point distribution was done thinking about future cycles and given that the points are added (at least from my side), not just a one time tournament, I wonder why there weren't any objections then.

@maraca - we posted more or less simultaneously, therefore, when I posted I haven't read yours.

For clarification I must add that I'm with maraca here: I don't think we should do anything else than adding the points.

But, it seems to me that DoP is very likely to go in that direction. Then, if he does so, it seems to me that my proposal is closer to optimal than the previous one. Furthermore it seems to me that its more “philosophically justifiable” as not automatically punishing previous high achievements.

I dont mean to punish higher Leagues. And I admit that adding the Award points of last Edition is by far the simplest and faster solution.

And, of course, if most of you like this solution, we shall do like this.

But, I think that a lower League does very well, it should improve its ranking quickly.

I will try to make some examples again. (I hope to be clear.)

First of all, I disagree with Hayashi, who said ” There is no more sense in the fact that winner of the Golden league gets 100 points and the winner of the Bronze league gets only 25, as their percentage is the same, 100%. All discussion above (how many points for the Bronze league), is thus getting completely nonsense.“

This is a mistake; Award points in Golden have much more “weight” that points in Bronze.

I remember that we might obtain the “Rating” like this: Award points gained / Maximum Aw. points that a League could gain.

So, let's take for example Poland League (1 + 2 + 1): it may get (maximum) 100 + 50 + 50 + 25 = 225 Award points.

In LCL 2, Poland will do like this:

1 Golden = winner = 100 pts. 2 silver = average = 25 pts each. 1 Bronze = average = 12 pts.

Poland's Rating should be: 162/225 = 72%.

Let's suppose now that a Polish wins Bronze, instead of Golden:

1 Golden = average = 50 pts. 2 silver = average = 25 pts each. 1 Bronze = winner = 25 pts.

Poland's Rating should be: 125/225 = only 55%!

As you can see, there is a lot of difference between those 2 situations. Golden is much more important - always.

100% + 50% + 50% + 50% is different from 50% + 50% + 50% + 100%!

♠ ♣ ♥ ♦

I have one idea regarding the adding of the points:

I understood that they are continuously added, so after some seasons, differences could add up significantly. If this understanding was correct, then I propose to limit the adding to the last three seasons or so (always assuming we will have so many that it matters ;-) )

To make it clear: I'm talking about adding the points, but discard the points from the previous cycles, every league starts with 0 again. The advantage for having more slots is big enough.

@DukeOfPrunes: I agree, golden has more weight. I still think % would be a good measure if every league has the same slots, but if not it will be really hard to get comparable results, I think in almost any scenario with different slots and with this kind of measurement higher leagues are punished.

I know, maraca, that higher leagues would be punished by a percentage Rating of the previous Edition. But, let me explain once more.

I propose (like Aganju did) to consider the Rating of the previous 3 Editions.

But, the LAST edition would have more weight.

For example, in LCL 3 (if I'll create it), we would consider the Rating of LCL 2 (which could weight, maybe 60%) and the Rating of LCL 1 (weight = 40%).

And in (an hypothetical) LCL 4, well, LCL 3 would weight 50%, LCL 2 = 30% and LCL 1 only 20%.

Like this, higher Leagues would not be punished, because they would “carry” their previous good results.

(I open brackets. I know that UEFA, the european football association, uses a “Rating” system for slots in Champions and in Europe League. I don't know exactly how it works, but I know that it considers the european results of the several teams of each League, in the last 5 years. It is expressed in something similar to a percentage. Now, I think that my proposal is pretty similar. I close brackets).

Yes, I think that fhsIV was right, “summing up” is too much severe for lower Leagues.

I will propose now an example. You probably know that Southern Hemisphere League, in LCL 2, will have 6 slots (3 + 2 + 1).

Let's assume that all the 6 players will get average Award points.

So, 50+50+50+25+25+12 = 212. You will be not surprised that “Rating”, in this case, would be 212/425= 50%.

Let's assume now that Danube (2 + 1 + 1) players will play very good in LCL 2.

In fact, 2 of them will win Golden and Silver! The 2 others will get average Award points.

So: 100 + 50 + 50 + 12 = 212. Hey, it is the same, if we just add.

But I think that Danube behave much better, don't you think so?

Danube Rating, in fact, would be 212/275 = 77%!

But Southern H. shall not cry. Having 50% doesn't mean that they will be placed in a medium position of Rankings, (like 8th,) which means 2 + 2 + 0 in LCL 3.

They would still have their excellent LCL 1 Rating… and probably they will be in higher positions once more.

I have some more example to post, but now I would like to discuss this one. (Assuming that it is clear.)

definitely, I was wrong that creating points does not make sense at all, sorry about that… But if Golden has more weight than Bronze, having more slots there has more weight in both directions - when having more slots there, higher leagues are being penalized much much more if they do not have good results enough.

anyway, I agree that we shall not penalize the lower leagues either. Still, a mere summing up the points from the last (and ONLY the last) LCL seems to me as the most fair possibility for all parts (and also the less complicated - even though I love statistics, so normally I prefer as complicated ranking as possible :-))

Yes DukeOfPrunes, like this the higher leages are maybe not punished, I still think it's somehow unpredictable. In your system the rank would be a percentage? And then you make 0.4*old% + 0.6*new%? Btw. referring to your Danube example: 200 points (ignoring the 12 bronze points) would be 2nd place in this round, so the chances for the lower leagues aren't that bad.

You are right maraca, it would be a bit complicated to calculate, but - I think - EASY to understand. (Just like UEFA ranking!)

Yes, I would like to do exactly like this, 0.4 x 1 + 0.6 x 2. And express it in a percentage form.

My example about Danube League does not mean that chances for lower leagues are good. “Au contraire”. It means that lower leagues have to do VERY WELL to have the same points as higher leagues. “Only” winning Golden and Silver… And maybe it is not enough. (if, we SUM)

I just read UEFA's system. Fun reading regardless its applicability or not to LCL.

Not that we should go with them, but for the determination of league slots its quite simple: just sum up the league's teams points in a given season and divide it for the number of teams that league has. Sum this averages for the last five years (no weight is used to differentiate the seasons).

applying this would be the most fair, in my opinion…

Sorry, but I am afraid that it works for UEFA, but not for LCL. And I'm going to show you why.

(I know, it seems that I believe that my System is the best. It isn't. So, let's keep on searching!)

Well, you probably know that Golden can give 100 points as maximum, and 50 average.

Silver, 50 max and 25 avg. Bronze, 25 max and 12 avg.

If all the six Southern Hem. (3 + 2 + 1) players will get average Award points, this League would get 50+50+50+25+25+12 = 212 award points. Rating (according to Uefa) would be 212/6 ≅ 35.

But, another League, let's say France, gets average points TOO. (France promotes 2 + 2 + 0): hence, 50 + 50 + 25 + 25 = 150. Uefa Rating would be 150/4 = 37.5!!

I think that you will realize that Uefa Rating doesn't work in LCL (perhaps, because we have Bronze).

I thought to use different weights for previous seasons, just because players can change their League. And many players leave the site, and others join. In European Uefa Leagues, it should not happen. But, if you dont like this proposal, let's discuss. I am ready to cancel, or to improve.

Yes I agree that this system doesn't work here, we would have to have a different allocation of the points, there is also no qualification for golden league that could give points.

It's clear, Hayashi and me are for summing up, DukeOfPrunes and fhsIV seem to be against it… and the rest don't care?

Btw the max in your % examples is for the southern hemisphere 100+94+90+50+47+25 = 406 –> 212/406 = 52% and also 6 points less for Danube 212/269 = 79%

Not so easy after all ;-)

Here a try to compare the 2 systems:

Summing up awards good results of single players, if not all players of a league do that well, it doesn't have that much influence. You can look at an additional promotion slot like an extra chance to get points.

DukeOfPrunes % system on the other hand does more look on the overall performance of a team. Here there is also a hierarchy golden > silver > bronce, except we use some weights like MRFvR suggested.

Looking at some examples I think that in practice the systems aren't that different from each other except that DukeOfPrunes system is a little bit better for lower leagues, but probably not if we include previous results.

After some thoughts, the main reason why I would go for summing up is the following:

If a league has more promotion slots, they promote weaker players. In a weaker league, the 2nd and the 3rd player play silver league, but in a stronger league they get both promoted to the harder golden league and weaker players to the silver league. So as already said I think it's much easier for lower leagues to get a good % than for higher leagues, having more slots becomes a disadvantage. I probably could give an example with some leagues and some ratings and how the more slots become a disadvantage but it would be very complicated.

First of all: I don't think that “summing” is a bad solution. (I think that Award points are balanced quite well, so - saying “summing is bad” would be like admitting that Award points aren't assigned carefully.)

I only suppose that Rating System are more accurate. And I am trying to demonstrate (till now, without success!)

Maraca, I understand very well what you mean. And I would like to create an example for you!

Suppose that Rhine League is 3rd, and Great Lakes (GL) 4th, like in LCL 1. Rhine will have 3 in Golden and 2 in Silver; GL will have 2 in Golden and 3 in Silver.

You said - and maybe it is true - that gaining Award points in Silver is easier than in Golden. Ok, let's talk only about the “extra” player, the 5th, in Golden for Rhine and in Silver for GL. (imagine that all the OTHER players of the 2 leagues will gain average award points).

So, the Rhine extra player did quite bad in Golden. He was 5th in his Semifinal, and he gained 36 aw. pts. In the meantime, the “extra” GL player reached Silver final, (Silver is easier…) , then he was 8th and he gained 37. We can say that the 2 Legues are tie.

But, if we calculate Ratings, it seems that GL did much better. I give only the approximate results: Rhine ≅ 46 %; Great Lakes ≅ 53 %. OMG, GL appears to be better, is it a mistake or what ?!

The example you would like to make, maraca, was something like this? I admit that those 2 results seem too different.

But. But if you consider older editions, like I propose, you would see that overall… Rhine will still be better than GL, like - I think - is fairer.

Yes exactly something like this. Your example didn't take into account that with more slots lower ranked players get to gold, than if they would have fewer slots. This could make the ranking difference even more extreme.

The problem with including older editions is, that it doesn't solve the problem, it only delays it. After some cycles the first one doesn't matter that much any more and the weight is on the cycles where the lower leagues had the advantage, it can even be that 5th and 1st swap places, even when they had the same ranking in the current cycle because the weights were shifted.

I have a suggestion to make it a little bit better for lower leagues if we sum up:

The 1st league gets 3*20+2*10+5 = 85 points for free.

Each league gets 85 - 'points the league gets for free' at the beginning of a cycle.

Example: 1st gets obviously 0 points. 2nd place gets 85 - 80 = 5 points at the start.

16th: 85 - (20 + 2*10 + 5) = 40 points at the start.

Nice suggestion. As first impression, I like it. Let's work on this - and let's wait for other players' advices!

About latest maraca's suggestion: I realized now that it is quite similar to a proposal that he made (twice?) previosly. That is = giving zero points to last Golden, Silver and Bronze position.

Actually, I never liked it, because I think that a player who was promoted should gain SOME award point. (Maybe, one day there will be a Ranking of players, based on their Award pts.)

But, like this, it should work! It is quite easy to calculate and to understand. And maybe lower Leagues will not complain.

We should just find a name for these “free” points at the beginning: Handicap Bonus? Lower Leagues Help (LLH?) Please suggest others.

Yes that's right Duke, it's almost the same. This approach is more general, if we think it's still too hard for lower leagues, we can make the same calculation for 2nd last place (or even 3rd or 4th last), which would give 6 points for the 2nd and 48 for the 16th. I would name it something that's easy to understand, like Handycap Bonus or Equalization/Balance Points.

Ok I think I'm gonna wait now too for other opinions / suggestions.

This system appeals to me more than any of the previous. This way (as I understood it) there is some balance for the lower league but the top league also enjoy some well-deserved advantage for its previous better performance.

the same :-)

Hi Sepp (Blatter) and all others. :) I released StreetSoccer in 2002, nice to see where that leads too!

It's the first time I see this thread. Cool! It makes me realize that we NEED a website for the upcoming '11-aside-soccer' boardgame in the future. But that's for the far future, has nothing to do with this LCL. I was just looking on this site to ask for help with the big soccer game with the StreetSoccer mechanics, will ask in new forum message about that, sorry for disturbing here.

Congrats to Luca Bruzzi!

Well, I don't know if it's a joke or what. Anyway, thank you for your nice worlds - and for Web version of Street Soccer!

Actually, I think that I still have to learn much, in order to become like the real Blatter.

So: LCL players! If you have some present for me (like money, girls or diamonds) just send me a PM.

Your League will soon have 6 slots in Golden, 3 in Silver and 4 in Platinum ;-)

We have the first player sure of his place in the Golden Semifinlas.

Congrtaulations to Super Chicken!

Golden Semifinal 11A1H1L1V2B2G2M3CGolden Semifinal 2Super Chicken1G1M1T2A2H2L2RGolden Semifinal 31C1F1N1S2D2E2P3BGolden Semifinal 41D1E1P1R2C2F2N3ASilver Semifinal 12S3H3L3T4A4G4M5ESilver Semifinal 22T3G3M3V4B4H4L5DSilver Semifinal 32V3F3N3S4D4E5A5CSilver Semifinal 43D3E3P3R4C4F4N5BBronze Final4P4R4S4T4V5F5G6A

@FC Cwali: if it's needed, please consider me as a beta tester!

@DukeOfPrunes: I don't know if it has been proposed before, I didn't follow the thread for lack of time, but I think that talking about possible different arrangements of matches I wonder if the SWISS TOURNAMENT TYPE has ever been taken into consideration. In very short, in the s.t.t. the matches are arranged at every turn, based on the previous results, so that every player will find his opponent based on complex rules that preserve colour and let the match be even. So, even shorter, every player meets a player that is close to him in the current tournament ranking. There is a lot of documentation around that can be easily found. The good points of this system are that you can choose the number of turns of a tournament, between the maximum (round robin) and the minimum (tennis-like knock-out), and is the perfect system when you have a lot of players and you want a rather precise result, although not equally spectacular.

If you're interested, there's a very good program that is called Swiss Perfect, maybe there are also newer ones.

thank you beppi. I think that - by now - Italian round robin (simple or double) is OK.

But, Swiss system (like in chess tournaments) is fine too. I will consider it.

Oh, beppi, you are sure now you'll be second in Italian League.

And this is a Table for next LCL 2 Semifinals.

Golden Semifinal 11A1H1L1Vbeppi2G2M3CGolden Semifinal 2S. Chicken1G1M1T2A2H2L2RGolden Semifinal 31C1F1N1S2D2E2P3BGolden Semifinal 41D1E1P1R2C2F2N3ASilver Semifinal 12S3H3L3T4A4G4M5ESilver Semifinal 22T3G3M3V4B4H4L5DSilver Semifinal 32V3F3N3S4D4E5A5CSilver Semifinal 43D3E3P3R4C4F4N5BBronze Final4P4R4S4T4V5F5G6A

The problem with swiss system as applied to LG is the fact that one would need to wait oine round to finish (which may take long enough) before starting another.

Yep, and other problems too. We should make an “invitation” tournament, like SSTT. (boring.) And thus, it would be Unrated; I think we all prefer that LCL is rated.

I don't find SSTT boring at all; other than that I do prefer that LCL is rated. That does NOT prevent that someone else (say beppi) couldn't organize, say, “LG's SS Open” as a swiss tournament. I probably wouldn't play that but others might feel different.

Sorry, I didn't mean that SSTT is boring. I played it and I enjoyed.

What I mean is… inviting your opponents, and waiting their invitations, can be boring.

I hope that nobody should feel offended if I say that LCL is probably easier and quicker.

User Tournaments, here in Littlegolem, work much better than “private invitations”.

With that I do agree. My own " Campeonato Brasileiro de Pelada” would definitively fall into the boring category (although the games themselves were exciting).

LCL 2: Players in Semifinal. link.

Golden Semifinal 11A1H1L1Vbeppi hg.2G2M3CGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegm1Mak572A2H2L2RGolden Semifinal 31C1F1N1S2D2E2P3BGolden Semifinal 4TnT1E1P1R2C2F2N3ASilver Semifinal 12S3H3L3T4A4G4M5ESilver Semifinal 2Cane3G3M3V4B4H4LHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 32V3F3N3S4D4E5A5CSilver Semifinal 43D3E3P3R4C4F4NRuskieBronze Final4P4R4S4T4V5F5G6A

There are 13 players promoted in the next steps. (Useful link.)

Italian league is finished, and Great Lakes too.

Congrats to passif, he won Southern Hemisphere league, this was the best League in LCL 1.

Congrats to Zul Nadzri too, he will win (99.9%) his League, Cosmos.

Golden Semifinal 1passif1H1L1Vbeppi hg.2G2M3CGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegm1Mak572A2H2L2RGolden Semifinal 31C1F1N1SMarleys Gh.2E2PMatteo A.Golden Semifinal 4TnT1E1P1R2C2F2N3ASilver Semifinal 12S3H3L3T4A4G4M5ESilver Semifinal 2Cane3G3M3VMichele4H4LHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 32V3F3N3Ssolo4E5A5CSilver Semifinal 4royalflush3E3P3R4C4F4NRuskieBronze Final4P4R4S4T4V5F5G6A

There are 29 players promoted now. (More info in this link.

Black cat won UK League, matjazo won Mediterranean, (Ñ)(e)(s)(o) won Spanish, Zul Nadzri won Cosmos and Looser won Poland.

Golden Semifinal 1passif1H(Ñ)(e)(s)(o)1Vbeppi hg.steve19642M3CGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegm1Mak572A2Hjose.ibiza2RGolden Semifinal 31CmatjazoZul NadzriLooserMarleys Gh.Huw Rees2PMatteo A.Golden Semifinal 4TnTBlack Cat1P1R2CSpajki2N3ASilver Semifinal 12S3Hisketzo67Tore S4A4G4MmaguireSilver Semifinal 2Cane3G3M3VMichele4H4LHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 32V3F3N3SsoloBarry5A5CSilver Semifinal 4royalflushjugular3P3R4C4F4NRuskieBronze Final4P4R4SMar. Halsor4V5F5G6A

NICE WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thks

You are welcome Jim. By the way, you just won your West USA League! Congrats-

We now have 36 players promoted. (36/72 = 50%…). Useful link.

Golden Semifinal 1passif1H(Ñ)(e)(s)(o)jim Obeppi hg.steve19642M3CGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegm1Mak572A2Hjose.ibiza2RGolden Semifinal 31CmatjazoZul NadzriLooserMarleys Gh.Huw Rees2PMatteo A.Golden Semifinal 4TnTBlack Cat1P1R2CSpajki2N3ASilver Semifinal 12S3Hisketzo67Tore S4AAganju4MmaguireSilver Semifinal 2CaneDustin3M3VMichele4H4LHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 32VDavid3N3SsoloBarry5A5CSilver Semifinal 4royalflushjugular3P3R4CNagy Fathy4NRuskieBronze Final4P4R4SMar. Halsor4VBill RoupasRex Moore6A

yoohooooooooooooooooooooooooo……..

Mark won Netherlands, and FC Pan won Danube. Congrats. 42 players now.

Golden Semifinal 1passif1H(Ñ)(e)(s)(o)jim Obeppi hg.steve19642M3CGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegm1Mak572A2Hjose.ibizaFC MalajGolden Semifinal 31CmatjazoZul NadzriLooserMarleys Gh.Huw Rees2PMatteo A.Golden Semifinal 4TnTBlack CatMarkFC Pan2CSpajkimaxdk93ASilver Semifinal 1spd_iv3Hisketzo67Tore S4AAganju4MmaguireSilver Semifinal 2CaneDustin3M3VMichele4H4LHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 3fhsIVDavid3N3SsoloBarry5A5CSilver Semifinal 4royalflushjugular3P3R4CNagy Fathy4NRuskieBronze Final4P4R4SMar. Halsor4VBill RoupasRex Moore6A

Update. Omike won French League.

Here are the links to the 16 Leagues: (if there is a *, this League is finished.)

League 1: Italy*. League 2: France. League 3: Poland. League 4: Spain. League 5: UK*. League 6: Scandinavia*.

League 7: Mediterranean*. League 8: Southern Hemis.. League 9: Netherlands. League 10: Rhine. League 11: Central Europe.

League 12: Danube*. League 13: Eastern USA*. League 14: Western USA. League 15: Great Lakes*. League 16: Cosmos.

Only 9> slots to fill. 3 in golden, 4 in Silver and 2 in Golden.

Golden Semifinal 1passif1H(Ñ)(e)(s)(o)jim Obeppi hg.steve1964shrclRebelYellGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegmomikeak57Lucimara2Hjose.ibizaFC MalajGolden Semifinal 3TobiasmatjazoZul NadzriLooserMarleys Gh.Huw Rees2PMatteo A.Golden Semifinal 4TnTBlack CatMarkFC PanmaracaSpajkimaxdk9J.P. LastraSilver Semifinal 1spd_iv3Hisketzo67Tore SRicardo (S.)AganjusalaozymaguireSilver Semifinal 2CaneDustinPHILOUXX3VMichele4HP. ToledanoHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 3fhsIVDavidFatPhilp_a_k_osoloBarryMRFvRRumpelf.Silver Semifinal 4royalflushjugular3PHolloKoniin S.Nagy FathyIgorRuskieBronze Final4PBurtonkfiecioMar. Halsor4VBill RoupasRex MooreNate

There is a little problem. I sent to FC Malaj, Danube League, his invitation for his Golden Semifinal #2.

Ten days already passed, but he doesn't register. How many days (weeks) should I wait for him, before I decide to substitute? Thanks for attention.

(Of course, if he won't come back, the 3rd of Danube will play in golden, the 4th in silver and so on.)

Actually you can be away about 30 days and 40 for members without losing a single game, so this should be the upper bound, but I don't know if we have that much patience ;-) I would give 15 days. But that would imply that anyone who is participating at the tour and going away longer than 2 weeks has to inform you. If we would choose 30 or 40 days then there would be no additional work.

In this round it's a special case, because you already sent the initation to FC Malaj I would wait as long as possible and then when we are right before the start of the next round invite the replacing player. Hmm this is always the case, that you already sent the invitations… no easy answer to your question.

Ta daam, registration done. Thanks for waiting.

Since the preliminary rounds are not over, there is plenty of time before we actually need to focus on playing. As you could have checked it, I have no other ongoing games at the moment, so my inactivity is doubly excused :-) Plus, this is officially the last day of summer. That is three excuses! :-)

Welcome back. You don't have to apologize!

I just wanted to discuss this. What should we do if somebody is promoted in following step - but he does not register? How long should we wait for him? I think that we don't have a question yet. Anyway.

Thank you for playing in LCL!

Golden Semifinal 1passif1H(Ñ)(e)(s)(o)jim Obeppi hg.steve1964shrclRebelYellGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegmomikeak57Lucimara2Hjose.ibizaFC MalajGolden Semifinal 3TobiasmatjazoZul NadzriLooserMarleys Gh.Huw ReeshoodiersMatteo A.Golden Semifinal 4TnTBlack CatMarkFC PanmaracaSpajkimaxdk9J.P. LastraSilver Semifinal 1spd_iv3Hisketzo67Tore SRicardo (S.)AganjusalaozymaguireSilver Semifinal 2CaneDustinPHILOUXX3VMichele4HP. ToledanoHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 3fhsIVDavidFatPhilp_a_k_osoloBarryMRFvRRumpelf.Silver Semifinal 4royalflushjugular3PHolloKoniin S.Nagy FathyIgorRuskieBronze Final4PBurtonkfiecioMar. Halsor4VBill RoupasRex MooreNate

You can find all the links in the table. (Or in this summary page.)

In this update, you will notice that only 4 slots are missing. That are the slots of Central Europe League (H).

In Silver Semifinal 4, we are still waiting for royalflush. I sent him his password, but he's probably in vacation time.

If he will not come back until september, 20th, I shall replace him (probably, with the 6th player in Great Lakes).

Golden Semifinal 1passif1H(Ñ)(e)(s)(o)jim Obeppi hg.steve1964shrclRebelYellGolden Semifinal 2S. ChickenPhlegmomikeak57Lucimara2Hjose.ibizaFC MalajGolden Semifinal 3TobiasmatjazoZul NadzriLooserMarleys Gh.Huw ReeshoodiersMatteo A.Golden Semifinal 4TnTBlack CatMarkFC PanmaracaSpajkimaxdk9J.P. LastraSilver Semifinal 1spd_iv3Hisketzo67Tore SRicardo (S.)AganjusalaozymaguireSilver Semifinal 2CaneDustinPHILOUXXVikingGeekMichele4HP. ToledanoHans-PeterSilver Semifinal 3fhsIVDavidFatPhilp_a_k_osoloBarryMRFvRRumpelf.Silver Semifinal 4royalflushjugularRichardHolloKoniin S.Nagy FathyIgorRuskieBronze FinalklaashaasBurtonkfiecioMar. HalsorGeorgeBill RoupasRex MooreNate

Ok folks, as you can see here, we know now who are the 72 Players promoted to next LCL 2 step.

Some of them still have to register in their Semifinal (or bronze final).

I sent them the link and the password, but unfortunately somebody just does not read the Messages (isn't it George?)

Oh, and I am still waiting for royalflush. He probably left the site?

Anyway, I hope that in some days everything will be OK, so we will start Golden and Silver Semifinals and Bronze Final!

I have good news for you guys.

Tomorrow (09-19) all the 4 Golden Semifinals will start!

The 32 players registered, so we can proceed.

And, all the 16 Leagues finished (there is only 1, useless, active game in Western League).

Silver and Bronze aren't ready (you can see here that there are 2 players missing).

Hope they will be ready in few days

Bronze Final is complete! I will start tomorrow (9/20)!

Good luck all!

And - I am tired of waiting for royalflush. (Great Lakes League).

I sent him his link and his password for Silver Semifinals 20 days ago, but does not answer.

I think that he probably left the site. thus…

the 6th in his League, cbzim, will substitute.

When cbzim will register, Siver Semifinals will start too!

Hooray! cbzim registered, so all the 72 players promoted are in the right Group.

Thus, Silver Semifinals will start tomorrow (9/21).

Good luck all!

When LCL2 will be over, I will add some Bonus Points per League.

rankLeagueGSBfree G/S/BtotalBonus. (=85-x)1Southern Hem.321602058502Italy320602008053Rhine320602008054Great Lakes2304030070155UK2304030070156Mediterranean2214020565207Eastern US2214020565208Central Eu.220402006025

rankLeagueGSBfree G/S/BtotalBonus. (=85-x)9Spain22040200602510France22040200602511Cosmos22040200602512Netherlands21140105553013Danube21140105553014Poland12120205454015Scandinavia12120205454016Western US12120205454032328

The reason is:

somebody noticed that higher Leagues will get too many “free points”, without effort.

(i.e. a player promoted in Golden, and losing all his Semifinal games, would gain some Award points anyway).

And it would be hard for lower Leagues to climb the stairs.

So, I accepted maraca's suggestion, and I decided to add some Bonus Points to each League (except for the First, of course).

I hope that you agree that this new rule is fair!

Hello, LCL players.

I updated my profile; now you can find the links for the 4 Finals.

Today, the situation is:

Golden FINALPhlegmTalizessMatteo A.Consolation Finalak57S. ChickenSilver Finaltigisspd_ivMicheleConsolation FinalFambe67

I will update: these are the players promoted in the Finals.

(2 Golden and 2 silver Semifinals are ongoing; the Bronze Final too).

Golden FINALRebelYellPhlegmTalizessMatteo A.matjazoConsolation Finalbeppi hg.ak57S. ChickenLooserMarleys Gh.Silver Finaltigisspd_ivMichelePHILOUXXConsolation FinalFambe67salaozyP. ToledanoHans-Peter

and - I created a table for LCL 2 (provisional) table. Just check here.

Ok my friends. When Manou will register, the Golden Final will be complete!

I hope that it will start in few days.

Curiously, there will be

- 2 players from Mediterranean League: matjazo and Spajki;

- 2 players from Rhine League: maraca and RebelYell;

- 2 players from Central Europe League: Talizess and Manou;

- Matteo A., Italy and Phlegm , Eastern US League.

Good luck all!

And, Consolation Final is complete!

Yes, the 8 players registered and are ready to start: on Monday, 19th December.

Two of them are from italian League, and two from Great Lakes Leagues.

Enjoy!

One question I have is what happens with the points we are accumulating? I have some from the first LCL, and I'll have some from this one. Are they used for anything other than seeding in the next LCL?

Well… I will sum the points of the players of the 16 leagues, and I assign the slots for next LCL edition. Sorry, that's all! (No free pizzas and beers at 1000 Award points!)

And: congrats, Rex, for winning Bronze League; you gained 25 Pts.

Maybe, one day I will create a Summary Table, just to know the best LCL players. I bet that now the best one is maraca: he played in BOTH the Golden Finals! (Good job!)

Hello; LCL 2: Silver FINAL will start today, January 4th. (link).

Enjoy!

Am I the only one who doesn't have a clue what's going on, not even knowing if I'm doing well or not?

Oh, I am sorry if many players feel like Phil.

I recommend you to check often my Player Page; I try to keep it clear - and updated.

There, you can find many answers and a lot of useful links.

You will see if you (and the other players of your League) are doing well - or not.

Anyway, Phil, you ARE doing well ;-)

Hooray - I think the colour coding was (and still is) confusing me. It's clearer now I've noticed that once you're gold, you're always gold, and similarly silver.

I'll just keep kicking the ball around, and meet you all in the pub afterwards for some “rehydration”.

Silver consolation final started, too.

Now, all the 4 Finals are running.

I've done a table that shows how many players per League are playing in the Finals.

LeaguePlayers in FinalsGolden Fin.Golden cons.Silver Fin.Silver cons.Italy51220Great Lakes50203Rhine42002Mediterr.32010Central Eu.32010Poland20110France20011Spain20002Eastern US11000Netherl.10010Cosmos10010UK10100Scandin.10100Western US10100Southern H.00000Danube00000Total328888

Golden Consolation Final is finished.

LCL 2 Results page is updated.

Hello. You probably heard of LCL, my awesome Street Soccer Tournament.

It stands for “Littlegolem Champions League”, and Third Edition will start soon!

In 1st Edition, 160 players registered, and in the 2nd, 176!

I will split up the players in 16 Leagues (Italy, UK, Western USA, Cosmos and so on… you can read all of them in my Player Page.)

The best players of each League will be promoted in the Semifinals, and then there will be the Final Groups.

If you would like to play with us, or if you have any question, please send me a Private Message.

Enjoy!

Here are all the passwords for the 16 LCL 3 Leagues.

Italy - pizza

France - foie

Poland - sernik

Spain - paella

UK - muffin

Scandinavia - glogg

Mediterr. - olive

Southern Hem. - pacoca

Netherlands - gember

Rhine - donut

Central EU. - stollen

Danube - halva

East USA - pudding

West USA - pumpkin

Great Lakes - panda

Cosmos - water

Yes, I am leaving littlegolem.

Good bye

Duke

??? Any problem??? I hope everything going well…

I think we need a volunteer or a committee of volunteers who think LCL is worth having to take over the Duke's role. I doubt that we will find anyone with the Duke's flair for using color in tables. I am myself not volunteering.

You mean - not easy to find a mad like me!

Hi,

first of all, I hope that whatever the reason for your decission is

that you manage to attain your goal ! Good Luck !

I am volunteering to create the colourful tables.

But I think Duke made a lot more jobs :

- Invitations/“Advertisments”

- Create and start leagues/send passwords

- Moderator to facilitate suggestions,discussions

- Setup,Improve LCL system.

- Generally “head of LCL” making decissions and all other jobs that may appear

Some more volunteers ?

Greetz

Taz

i volunteer to setup the leagues and send the passwords. The improving of LCL is a job for all who care, but the other points need someone concrete.↲Question for Duke of Prunes: after all, LCL is YOUR child. Would You like to stay the “head”? I am meaning, if we create a team of volunteers, wouldn't you be interested in continuing LCL as the head of this team, not having that much work to do? Or do you really prefer to quit LCL/entire littlegolem?

I don't know. I resigned all my 250 running games; I removed from championships and Teams.

I really need a break.

Now, all the LCL 3 Leagues will start in few days.

When they will be over, you shall decide what to do.

If you wish, you could create the Semifinals. Or abort LCL. Your choice.

Anyway, I promise that I will always read the forum and answer to any PM.

And if I can, I will try to help.

Yes, I still love my “child”, but he's grown.

And I hope that he will walk on HIS legs. If possible

well, since the leagues are supposed to start in few days, I will do some last advertisement (only 3 players for the Great lakes league!)…

I suggest that for the semifinals, we take into account the different number of players involved in all leagues.

I also think we should establish some committee to take care about LCL and decide about its future, out of the people who would do the things summed up by Taz. Up till now, we may consider Taz and myself as being in this committee (if Taz or nobody else is not against), but we need at least one other person, to keep the amount of work under control. Especially, we need somebody who could do the invitations/advertisments part…

Fine, I did a small table including all players who registered in LCL 2 and LCL 3.

—>1. out of 176 players who participated in the LCL 2, about 20 left the site, including many players who were there from 2002 (!!!)

—>2.9 players changed the league, which is generally ok, as most of leagues do not have enough players (while the French one has too much of them, so I will leave it for a different one)…

—>3.17 new players joined the tournament

—>4.as by now only 99 players from LCL2 registered for LCL3, which means that there are about 50 people who were in LCL2, did not leave the page, but did not register yet/do not want to play

I guess my job now is to contact those 50 people…

Thanks Duke, it's a nice idea and it worked pretty good. Good luck to you.

Actually I need a break too, somehow it switched from being happy to make some moves to I have to make my moves… So there is a seat open for LCL3 in the Rhine League.

If someone (trusted, because of spam) wants to organize the LCL, you can write me a PM. I've written a (primitive) lgMailer to support Duke. You can manage mailing lists for the different teams and send messages to leagues or to all LCL-players.

So long maraca

Ok, about 50 messages sent :) we have 127 people now, need to get at least 33 more…