Place in Championship General forum

22 replies. Last post: 2004-11-26

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Place in Championship
  • Crelo ★ at 2004-11-22

    When a player skips one or more Championships is he loosing his place in the league? Should he start from lower league again?

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2004-11-22

    I think you have just experienced the answer to that question. :-)

  • Crelo ★ at 2004-11-22

    Yes I did, not very pleasant. I didn’t find anything in FAQ though I remember a discussion about this, should have been in Forum. I had the idea I keep my place in Championship even if I skip some. It has any importance how many I skiped?

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2004-11-22

    No, I think one is enough.

  • Hjallti at 2004-11-22

    I don’t see how to do it differently than start underneath again. (I know it is unpleasant... I stopped in the rev ch in 2nd league, and restarted in 4th as well).

    But I think it is the natural way for that type of tournament. If you want to win fast you have to get a ‘monthly cup’ victory.

  • Gregorlo at 2004-11-22

    well, you could have dropped one position, instead of a total fall...

  • movieloverxxl at 2004-11-22

    Monthly cup is not that fast ;-)

  • Barry at 2004-11-22

    If you choose to not play in a championship, why do you expect to compete in a following championship in the same division that you were in previously, not playing a championship cycle should be treated the same as if you were relegated. How would it work if 8 players decided to skip a cycle and come back in the same division, would peole who were promoted be denied their place or would the division be expanded to make the number of games unrealistic.

  • Crelo ★ at 2004-11-22

    Well Barry, you have a point (a good one I’d say). There is another rule which say that if you are in the top 10 and NEVER played in a championship then you go directly to the first league.

    Now, I am in the worst position. Because I didn’t play in the last championship I have to start from the lower league, so I’m treated like a new player. But because I played once in the championship I cannot be in the first league even if I am in the top 10, so I’m treated like an old player. :-)

    I hoped I’ll get in the first league though not very sure of that. Now this means I’ll never play in go championships again, I won’t have the nerve to play a couple of years with kyu players.

  • klaashaas at 2004-11-22

    Perhaps it’s a good idea that top 10 players who have played in the championship before can enter in the 2nd league (or league 1, but a league 1 spot might be a littlebit too precious to keep giving away for ‘free’).

    It’s no fun for anyone if a strong player joins the championship in the lower leagues.

    Of course, you can always make a new name, play a few MC’s and enter the top league straight away. However, I hope that won’t be necessary:)

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2004-11-22

    You advance to first league if you are in top 10 and never played in first league in the championships before.

  • klaashaas at 2004-11-22

    Perhaps it’s a good idea that top 10 players who have played in league 1 before can enter in the 2nd league when they re-signup for the championship.

  • Indy at 2004-11-22

    I, too, believe that this rule requires some tweaking.

    The first truth is that it will now take one year before Crelo can compete in the division that – I am sure many would not argue – he belongs to.

    The second truth is that neither Crelo nor the other players in League four are going to enjoy their games against each other.

    The third truth is that Crelo will most likely quit Little Golem for the above two reasons, which will sadden a lot of the other players in League 1 as he probably added a competitive edge to the group. Little Golem will become weaker for it.

    I am sure that we can fine tune the rules to allow players to take a break of ONE tournament without being relegated 3 divisions. I think going down one division is fairer, but I would not be opposed to a ‘wild card’ concept either, which exists in many sporting events today.

  • Hjallti at 2004-11-23

    Even returning to a division lower (simultion of relegation) would be strange if for instance 10 second league players use this simultaneously. On the other hand, it is strange to be punished to do withdraw and re-enter, whereas players that just stay there and don’t play annoy everyone and get exactly this: one relegation.

    Anyway I still think it is the nature of a championship setup that you have to stay in. Problem is that they are slow.

    By the way my remark about monthly cup was that in a monthly cup everyone starts from scratch together.

  • Crelo ★ at 2004-11-23

    The idea of the Championship is a good, simple one. I am thinking about a combined qualification, based both on the previous championship place and the rank. Let’s say in the first league you can enter only by comming from second league. For the other leagues you can enter also based on rank (rank over 1800 goes in second league, over 1600 in third league, etc.). And the rank should be confirmed by at least a number of games, no new accounts. Of course, this raise the problem of the fixed number of players in groups. Who stays and who goes down?

    Well, rules are rules, I’m not complaining. Only now I have to reconsider my plans and attitude. :-) Who knows, teaching games galore.

    The problem with the 19x19 go Monthly Cup is that there are handicap games. While this is not a bad thing, it reduces the competition value of it.

  • Hjallti at 2004-11-23

    I forgot about the handicap... okay you are right...

    About the fixed number... there is only a ‘almost’ fixed number in the championship:
    (the reason is that protection of top5 and tie (points and son) can give more then 18 people who are allowed into 2nd league)
    So if the rules are clear (and hard) there is no problem to put some people in higher league. I don’t think you should use there absolute rank but rather their relative rank.

    At this moment the line up of the first league is (as far as I know):
    top5 of previous 1st league, (2x) top2 of previous 2nd league, top10 of the ranks who haven’t played first league ever before.

    You could imagine for 2nd league:

    (4x) drop down from first, (6 pl) 3 to 5 of the prev 2nd, (8 pl) top 2 of the prev 3th league, all rank-top10 players not playing higher.

    3th league: present + all rank-top25 players not playing higher

    At the present most leagues are 9 players. This would be less in this new system.

    I would like to keep the top5-protection-rule, and the top2-promotion.

    the top of ranking should be cleared of all non-active players.

    An other way could be to put in the highest ranked, rather than the number 6 of a league when people stop playing.

  • Marius Halsor at 2004-11-23

    I think that dropping out of a championship should send you one division down for every championship you pass. Thus, if you pass one championship, you go down one level; if you pass two, you drop two levels. If you stay away for a long time, you’ll have to start from the very bottom again.

    The morale here, ofcourse, is to NOT skip championships! :-) If for some reason you are unable to participate in one, resign all your games in the first move, and you’ll drop one division. This should annoy no-one.

    Anyway, I don’t approve of designating players to a certain division based upon ratings – except in the brilliant manner that this is already handled. There are not many leagues in most games, so if you’re good, you will fight your way to the top in not too long time. There is ofcourse an exception for very longlasting games like GO19 and Hex19...


  • Tim Shih at 2004-11-23 have been immersed in just game playing, almost missed this interesting topic. :)

    Yes, I think that descending one league is fair for a player who skips the championship once.

    But fellow players, there is one thing some of you may not have thought about.

    We ought to know that tending LG and making it well liked by its memebers is a very demanding task. Why don’t more players become MEMBERS, so that perhaps LG can afford to hire a full-time webmaster (am not familiar with the financial situation of LG. but judging from the low percentage of members, it is a good assumption that LG cannot afford one), who then can manage all possible alterations and improvements.

    OK, let me get back to the topic. How about forming a committee of, say, 5 top players (or 5 most senior members), of each game type? For situations that are beyond LG rules, petitions/complaints can be brought to the committee, and final decisions can be made.

    Crelo’s situation is completely understood. If LG likes to attract strong players, then special circumstances should be considered. For example, what if one day out of blue, Lee Chang-Hao desires to join LG? Do we expect him to start the championship from the bottom league? :) good day, or good night.
  • Hjallti at 2004-11-25

    I don’t like the committee idea because it will it might bring situation where Richard and the committee disagree, and since Richard owns and creates the site he should have the final word. What point has a commitee if it is only recommanding without having the final word? Richard could ask players what they think if he needs advice.

    By the way, the topic handled here is no way beyond the rules. The rules are clear about who is where in the next round.

  • Iluvatar at 2004-11-25

    Here’s my view on the championship levels:

    When I join a championship for the first time I agree to start at the bottom level. If I win my group I make it to the above level. If I lose my level, wether it’s because I skip the tournament or my oponnents beat me, I degrade to the below level. This should be the same no matter what the ratings or skills are, and no matter who the player is.

    Championship is a separate tournament and should be treated as such, no matter what the results of rating tournaments or monthly cups might be.

  • Tim Shih at 2004-11-25 Ah, the idea of having committees is not for the committees to seize away Richard’s authority. Rather, it is for the committees to share Richard’s burden. :) yes, of course, the owner and the creator of the website should have the final words.

    Let me also share with you all a common practice done at universities. If an outside scholar has demonstrated her/his academic qualifications, she/he does not have to go through assistant professor --> associate professor --> full professor the usual route. She/He can directly skip to higher levels. And there are committees to scrutinize the qualifications.

    Likewise, if a strong player desires to join LG, we can consider not placing her always at 1500. The committee members can play with her a couple of testing games and suggest an approximate rating for her. If she opts this route, she needs to pay a nominal fee, which can entirely go to the coffer of LG. :) My heart is with LG. I just like to see LG to prosper.
  • Krzysztof (Chris) at 2004-11-26

    I think Crelo should write to our WEBMASTER if he have to start from 4th division. I think Richard will make by hand that Crelo wiil be joined to , for instance , 2nd division ( and one group will be 10th person...) I think in such situations just will of Richard should decided...
    But REALLY best players sholud have possibility to rejoin 2 league...

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