-2 Hours General forum

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-2 Hours
  • Dvd Avins at 2008-11-11

    Richard, since you seem to be around more these days, I hope you re-start the time-out procedure soon.

  • Bernhard Herwig at 2009-01-10

    In one of my games the oponent has got -23 hours.

    Maybe the timeout deamon sleeps again?

  • wccanard at 2009-01-10

    Yes—tournaments aren't starting either; it's the usual.

  • Bill Collins at 2009-01-10

    Empathy isn't scoring again too.

  • FatPhil at 2009-01-11


  • Nevermind at 2009-01-11

    does not affect me

  • wccanard at 2009-01-11

    Phil's comment, when translated into English, means “it's fixed now”.

  • wccanard at 2009-01-30

    Broken again. The site has been running very slowly over the last few days too (and this the second time that the daemon has stopped in the last few days).

  • MichaeI X at 2009-01-30

    Let's wait another +2 Hours, if the timer job is running at least once a day, to handle the GoE game and vacation day calculations…

    One of my opponents is “-6 hours”, too.

  • mungo ★ at 2009-03-12

    I got an opponent with negative time again.

  • christian freeling at 2009-03-12

    I got Ypercube @ -4, let's see who wins this time :)

  • wccanard at 2009-03-12

    Passing comment: alain and FatPhil noted in another thread that the site was running slowly last night so, given my comments dated 30/1/09 above, perhaps there's some correlation between “site taking several seconds to generate a page” and “time daemon about to crash”.

    Brief negative time FAQ:

    Q) Why do some of my opponents have negative time?

    A) Something minor has crashed. There's nothing we can do about it. It will be fixed later. When it's fixed any opponent still in negative time will lose a vacation day and will move back into positive time, so you'll probably know when it happens.

    Q) I have negative time! Does this matter?

    A) Not really. But play a move because when the problem is fixed you'll lose a vacation day. If you play a move you'll get back to 36 hours again (I think).

    Q) When will it be fixed?

    A) When Richard fixes it; sometimes it takes a few hours and occasionally several days.

    Q) Why isn't the new Game of Empathy starting?

    A) Because something minor has crashed. See above.

  • christian freeling at 2009-03-12

    I almost won - then he moved. Reminds me of Charlie Brown:

    Charlie: “One moment victory was within our grasp!”

    Linus: “Yeah, then the other team showed up after all” …

  • ypercube ★ at 2009-03-12

    Christian, you wouldn't win. It's March, I still have vacation days.

  • Marius Halsor at 2009-03-12

    Heh, not spending all your vacation days before the Monster starts this time, Yper?

  • christian freeling at 2009-03-12

    Moreover, it doesn't really bother me. Games enough :)

  • ypercube ★ at 2009-03-12

    Not really, it's just that this year I started with 30, instead of the usual 20 :)

  • wccanard at 2009-03-12

    Aah curses, I forgot

    Q) Why isn't the monthly cup I registered for starting?? There are enough people!

    A) Because something minor has crashed. See above.

  • mungo ★ at 2009-03-12

    It's fixed. I think.

  • wccanard at 2009-03-12

    Q) How can I tell if it's fixed?

    A) One way of guessing if it's fixed is by going to


    and seeing how many people are registered for each monthly cup. If there are several monthly cups which have 5 or more people registered, then it probably isn't (but it might be, because if multiple userids are entering monthly cups from the same IP address then this also causes 5 or more people to be registered for one cup). Conversely, if most or all monthly cups have at most 4 people registered, then it might be fixed. If you can find a monthly cup round that has started very recently then it almost certainly is fixed, because one consequence of the minor crash is that no tournaments start at all.


    I once thought that we could access a page which gave an overview of what was going on on the site, e.g. it would say things like “Tournament:connect6.mc.2009.mar.1.28 started 10 minutes ago” (and would mention more than one type of game—i.e. I'm not talking about the “home page” for each game, I'm talking about an overview of all games). This would give plenty of evidence to suggest whether or not the problem was fixed—if I could remember where that page was. Can anyone help?

  • ypercube ★ at 2009-03-12

    It was the main site page. At the change (where blog was added), that central page was changed.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-03-15

    games are showing negative time again

  • wotan at 2009-03-17

    My opponent didn't moved for more than 30 days. Shouldn't end the game than by time?

  • wccanard at 2009-03-17

    @wotan: read Ed Collins' FAQ.

  • wccanard at 2009-03-23

    And off we go again.

  • labradors at 2009-03-23

    How about something like the following, set to run in cron at least every hour:

    ----- clip —–


    export LGDAEMON

    ps aux \| grep $LGDAEMON \| grep -v grep >/dev/null 2>&1 \|\| $LGDAEMON >/dev/null 2>&1 br>—– clip —–

    Of course, the pathname shown is just an example, and should be replace by the real pathname. Otherwise, I run Sphinx search for one of the websites I manage, and the above script (with obvious changes for use on LG) is exactly what I run in cron to make sure the search daemon keeps running. Since that site is on a shared server for which I am NOT the administrator, there are times when it could be rebooted during THEIR system maintenance, etc., so that little script, kept in my site's /etc directory and run at regular intervals with cron, makes sure that the Sphinx search daemon is never down for very long. The same type of thing could be helpful, here, for the time daemon.

  • labradors at 2009-03-23

    Well, something happened with the way the forum handled the last line of the script part. The script SHOULD end with the “&1” and anything after that was what got mangled. Obviously, the forum tried to use a line break (“BR”) tag, and the opening bracket for it got messed up.

    Just to make sure nothing else was messed up, here it is, again, at the end of this message so nothing else will interfere with it:


    export LGDAEMON

    ps aux \| grep $LGDAEMON \| grep -v grep >/dev/null 2>&1 \|\| $LGDAEMON >/dev/null 2>&1

  • wccanard at 2009-03-23

    As has been mentioned before, of course this sort of thing would easily fix the problem **if the solution was as simple as having to type in a one-line command in order to restart a program**. But no-one has a clue what really is involved. For example there could be some sort of important file that is logging certain events and which now needs to be manually edited, because for the last few hours everything in the log file is wrong in some way, and the file absolutely needs to be fixed before the job is restarted.

    Given that Richard wrote the code to manage the site, I would imagine that he'd be capable of writing a 1-line cron job to restart a program that has terminated. Hence I conclude that the evidence is there to suggest that it's probably actually a whole lot more complicated than what you suggest.

  • Gregorlo at 2009-03-23

    it has been mentioned before, yes. And I completely agree with wccanard :)

  • wccanard at 2009-03-23

    FAQ addition:

    Q) Why doesn't the webmaster write a simple script to restart the time daemon when it stops?

    A) We don't really know. Certainly it shouldn't be hard to write a script which spots that the daemon has died. But maybe restarting the time daemon “safely” is a lot more complicated than just restarting a script (e.g. maybe there are important files which start getting corrupted when the time daemon stops and these files absolutely must be fixed by hand before the time daemon can be restarted). Or perhaps the daemon dies in a more serious way than we understand, and manually restarting it with a one-line command just results in it instantly crashing again before any times on the site are updated.

  • MarleysGhost at 2009-03-23

    Another possibility is that the daemon stops for some reason, such as one of those NullPointerException errors, and that it does restart, but stops again for the same reason before it can accomplish its tasks. This might be continuing until someone deletes some record in the database that has a null value where the daemon doesn't expect it.

  • Dvd Avins at 2009-03-23

    I absolutely agree with all the caveats, and have taken that side myself above.

    But I also wish that this bothered Richard half as much as it bothers us, so that he'd fix it, anyway.

  • Elisa Kabiljo at 2009-04-08


  • MarleysGhost at 2009-04-08

    I guess Richard's in Vienna.

  • wccanard at 2009-04-08

    Heh, sorting out gramiak :-)

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-05-24

    negative time again

  • wccanard at 2009-07-13


  • wccanard at 2009-08-14


  • bloke at 2009-08-16


  • wccanard at 2009-08-28


  • nickkzl at 2009-08-30


  • Gregorlo at 2009-08-30

    -35 :)

  • elroy at 2009-08-30

    -61 On one of my games. So mine is highest, that means I win the most negative time in a game competition! Wooo Hooo!

  • Aaron Bercovici at 2009-08-30

    Technically your opponent is winning :)

  • elroy at 2009-08-31

    Oh sure, he is winning in the actual game but here in the new LG competition WHO HAS THE MOST NEGATIVE HOURS I am leading. Now at -75. So again I say Wooo Hooo!

  • Aaron Bercovici at 2009-08-31

    That's not what I meant: he is the one with the negative time so he has the most negative hours.

  • wccanard at 2009-08-31

    Right. In some sense we're all losing, but maybe elroy is losing the most because he's most likely to be cheated of a win on time.

    I have been watching a hex game here between two non-members, where there was no move played for 38 days, and no-one timed out, because so many days recently have been lost to the negative time bug and its consequences. I think that the player whose turn it wasn't has been cheated.

  • elroy at 2009-08-31

    Man, you guys are so serious. I knew what you meant Aaron. I was just trying to make light of an annoying situation. So..

    I am winning in the new LG competition WHO HAS AN OPPONENT WITH THE MOST NEGATIVE HOURS IN A GAME my opponent is now at -81 hours. So AGAIN I say WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!

    (I shouldn't really complain, my opponent is in a better position then me in our game and I should be happy for the reprieve from getting spanked by a superior player.)

  • wccanard at 2009-08-31

    I think both Aaron and I will concede that you have won that one :-) I think you're wrong about him being serious though, he was just being pedantic, which gets him lots of points in a place like this.

  • klaashaas at 2009-08-31

    -83 hours, Last move: 2009-08-26 12:57. Am I winning?

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-08-31

    maybe someone should sent Richard M a message about this, he may not know about the problem. He made his moves earlier today against me and replied to a message I sent him.

  • ypercube ★ at 2009-09-01

    Perhaps Richard knows about it.

    He may have left in on puupose this way for a few days. So, people who could not log (in the 3-4 days that Golem was out of connection with the rest of the world) to play in their games without losing from time.

  • elroy at 2009-09-01

    Ok Pedantic, fine. I am still winning at -112 hours approximatly 1 hour ahead of klaashass if I did the math right.

    Yes, perhaps Richard knows and wishes to use this as a mechanism to deal with down time. I am just happy he keeps the site going at all.

    But most importantly, I am still winning.

  • klaashaas at 2009-09-02

    Hey, you can't claim your win so easily! I'm at -118 hours now, and your forum post says '5 hours ago'.

    How can we find out who's winning?

  • wccanard at 2009-09-02

    You just both post the game ids of the games you're talking about, rather than bragging about times without any evidence :-)

  • elroy at 2009-09-02

    Well, I did say IF I did the math right. I never claimed that I actually did it right.

    How's this: At 12:36 Greenwich Mean Time (standard)I had a game at -123 hours.

    here is a site for GMT- http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/

    AND I posted last so…WOOOOO HOOOOO!

  • wccanard at 2009-09-02

    That's still no evidence. Just post a link to the game.

  • elroy at 2009-09-02


    I win, “Mission Accomplished” and all of that. That is how it works right? Just put on a flight suit and declare victory. Well I'm wearing my flight suit and saying Wooooo Hoooooo! (and ignoring the fact that I have no idea what is going on) Whoops, did I just drift into a critique of my former commander and chief?

  • klaashaas at 2009-09-02

    12.51 GMT: -124 hours

    How does a link to the game gives us enough evidence, wccanard?

  • Marius Halsor at 2009-09-02

    Well, that way we can have two windows open at the same time. If, whenever we refresh both windows, one of the games have one more hour negative time than the other, we'll know who wins. Unless there are other, hitherto unknown participants in this rather awkward contest :-)

  • elroy at 2009-09-02

    12:55 and mine just rolled to 124 as well. We would actually have to figure out when the game hour clock rolls over for each. That sounds like too much work for a joke. Rats, I might not be winning. I may have to suspend some laws and start torturing people.

  • elroy at 2009-09-02

    Fine, here is the game for which I say “Mission Accomplished”


  • elroy at 2009-09-02

    Mostly I am just posting a lot so that Richard notices and does something about the negative time. Perhaps I should just send him a note.

  • wccanard at 2009-09-02

    Yes, I don't object to random rubbish like this keeping the thread at the top of the forum postings file. When the daemon restarts we all shut up, right?

    @klaashaas: are you going to tell us which of your 100+ games is the one that you're claiming beats elroy?

  • klaashaas at 2009-09-02

    The clock moved from -124 to -125 somewhere between 1:46:06 p.m. (GMT + 0:00) and 1:48:07 p.m. (GMT + 0:00)

    It's a close battle!

  • elroy at 2009-09-02

    OH NOOOOO! My opponent Timed out and I won. I have lost the WHO HAS AN OPPONENT WITH THE MOST NEGATIVE HOURS IN A GAME competition.

    …Thank you Richard

  • euhuang ★ at 2009-09-02

    Besides saying “thank you” to Richard, I think regular players, or at least heavy users of this LG site, should join as a member and pay annual membership fees. This really can help Richard continuously maintain/improve this wonderful site which most of us enjoy so much, right?

  • wccanard at 2009-09-02

    @euhuang: here's another way of looking at it. If I could see a stable site which didn't keep breaking, I might be more inclined to pay. Having said that, if 50 percent of heavy users here think “I'll pay to make it better” and the other 50 percent think “I'll pay when it's better”, then eventually most people will pay.

    Having said *that*, I note that on sites like jijbent.nl (where many people pay, and people are employed with the money to work on making sure the site is up, the daemons are running and no-one is cheating, so things get fixed much more quickly) the admins made it work by crippling the site for non-payers. Richard currently offers very little to those who pay and perhaps this was an incorrect business decision on his part.

    Back on topic: is the daemon running? Certainly some tournaments just started, so it was running at some point very recently—but looking at the main tournaments page I still see some monthly cups with 5,6,7 people registered, which makes me think that the daemon started and then stopped again very quickly.

  • Aaron Bercovici at 2009-09-02

    The game of empathy is at -112 hours, but my absentee opponents have lost vacation days.

  • elroy at 2009-09-02

    To reply to euhuang: In fact I said thank you to Richard AND I am a member. I assume people will become members when they figure out that money is, unfortunately, what makes the world go 'round and sooner or later it will be what makes this site continue on, become something entirely different or just dissolve into mere electrons someday. For now it is a quirky, wonderful place on the web that some guy whom I have never met named Richard makes happen. Scolding people for not being members will not help and I like the site just how it is anyway.

    To wccanard: Chicken or the egg you take your pick.

    It is strange what just happened if not every issue was resolved. All I know is that Richard has chosen to smile on me and deliver me from my plight. I would like to think he delivered me because I spoke in his language by making a game out of it. Perhaps that is the best way to pray to Richard. All hail Richard who works in mysterious ways.

  • richyfourtytwo ★ at 2009-09-02

    I'm also still waiting for the Tour de Little Golem StreetSoccer user tournament to start. It indeed looks like there still is a problem.

    About membership: Not crippling the site for non-members might be an incorrect business decision, but that doesn't make it a bad decision. Because of the low entry barrier we have lots of (also lots of good) players here. Of course LittleGolem isn't perfect. LittleGolem as an open source project run by a group of people and thus being more responsive, that would sound perfect, for me at least. But as it is it is more than good enough to be supported by me. Probably Richard would get twice as much money if people were not so lazy. It took me about a year to get from 'I really should become a member' to actually doing it (which took about 10 minutes).

  • wccanard at 2009-09-02

    There is clearly still a problem: look at the main tournaments page to see that there are plenty of monthly cups with more than 4 people registered. My guess is that Richard just started lots of tournaments by perhaps running some sort of sub-process that started monthly cups going, but didn't trigger GoE or user tourneys?

    Another gripe I've always had about this place is that Richard never tells you what is happening. Why don't we get an explanation here, **even one of the form “I'm very busy, I'll get round to things in a few days, hopefully Friday”** or something like that—that would be much better than just leaving us all to stew. He must have spent quite a long time (several hours, at the very least) programming when creating the blog that appeared a few months ago on this site, but now never posts to it (and updates on what's happening would take several minutes, at the very most).

  • elroy at 2009-09-02

    It wasn't just a starting of a lot of tournaments that occurred was it? My game with all of the negative hours did just finally time out and so did my opponent's other games in the Twixt championship we were playing in. All the evidence I have is that he fixed just my opponent's negative time issue though that seems absurd from a programming standpoint. (Who knows, maybe my attempt to gripe in what I considered a humorous way got his attention and he really did smile just on me.) Did the process get fixed for a short time or did it just get fixed for some games… who knows. I guess a little more information would be nice but I personally am going to cut the guy some slack, this site is run by his good will basically. Really, how many members are there. Not many that I see. I am just happy I have somewhere to play Twixt.

  • Carroll ★ at 2009-09-18



    …only -1 hour!

  • Gregorlo at 2009-09-18

    -2 for a game of mine now :(

  • wccanard at 2009-09-18

    Aww crap. I am desperate for a game I'm playing to finish and now this. And there's evidence to suggest that when Richard fixes the problem, he might donate some vacation days to the “victims”…

  • Carroll ★ at 2009-09-18

    So you should use them ;-) go and get yourself some vacations!

    When you come back, many people will have played and some new tournaments will have started…

  • wccanard at 2009-09-18

    Oh—I go on vacation! I just play by sniffing wireless connections etc ;-) In fact I was in France a month or so ago with the kids.

  • wccanard at 2009-09-20

    reluctant bump

  • christian freeling at 2009-09-20

    Games where it is your opponent's turn

    Game Time Opponent Rating Tournament Moves

    1081307 -53 hours Ronek info 1484 Havannah - rated game 11

    1082031 -52 hours Ronek info 1484 Havannah - rated game 5

    1074739 -11 hours Bernhard Herwig info 1594 havannah.ch.2.2.2 64

    1091110 0 hours Lukasz Lew info 1947 havannah.mc.2009.sep.1.7 13

  • wccanard at 2009-09-20

    Yes, we all know. This is quite a common occurrence at the minute I'm afraid. One of the disadvantages of the vacation system here is that some games drag on and on for months (which in some cases means some championships drag on and on for months). These no-time-out issues, sadly, make things even worse. And when Richard secretly refunds vacation days this makes them even worse still.

  • Hjallti at 2009-09-21

    I am just wondering if it would technically possible (and advisable) to have somewhere in cyberspace (unrelated to the LittleGolem server) some bot(s), that checks at some crucial times (for instance 1:00 CET) if the time of empathy or some games is negative. (That this is possible is a positive of course). and then would be able, if the times are negative, to send some message (a 'kick') to the update bots of richards so that if there is only some minor error they wake up again?

  • wccanard at 2009-09-21

    I think the general conjecture is that, when the daemon stops,

    (a) Richard knows there's a problem

    (b) it takes more than 20 seconds to sort out

    (c) hence it doesn't get sorted out for a while.

    I am guessing that prodding a bot won't solve this.

    I think it's a shame that Richard doesn't explain some more of the details of why it happens and how much work it is to get things restarted when they stop. This makes people have to resort to guesswork. What is so daft is that Richard has got such a big user base including plenty of “geeks” who would, I'm sure, happily contribute to the upkeep of the site by doing what is required to restart the daemon, had they got access to the innards of the site. I think that, given the current state of the site (very popular, daemon broken about 1 day in 7 on average over the last couple of months) he would benefit a great deal from nominating an “inner circle” of people who were prepared to do some work/admin for him for free. I see that game 1081307 is currently on -71 hours so that's 3 days that we have “lost” so far in this outage, and we lost five more earlier this month (see above). Maybe Richard is busy, but there are certainly people out there who aren't, and who would be happy to help.

  • MarleysGhost at 2009-09-21

    Or redesign it. If a daemon that's supposed to be running all the time abends, and the cause of the abend has to be analyzed before restarting will do any good, then replacing the daemon with a cron job or scheduled task that runs 2 or 3 times an hour, ends as soon as it's done, and, to reduce the effect of some task that it's abending on, randomizes the order in which it tackles its various tasks would at least allow a lot of the site to proceed, albeit with the abending task still left undone until it can be manually analyzed.

    Another thing I've wondered is whether a daemon is needed at all. Could the code that displays the Game of Empathy page or a player's list of games notice that it's displaying a negative time and just do what needs to be done itself?

  • wccanard at 2009-09-21

    Daemon restarted!

    Thanks Richard.

  • wccanard at 2009-09-21

    Hey…hang on. I think what has happened is similar to what happened on the 2nd of Sept. Lots of tournaments started 3 minutes ago (as I type), but GoE is still in negative time. So I conjecture (based on what happened back then) that

    (i) vacation days got used by negative-timers

    (ii) everyone is in positive time again

    (iii) user tournaments that were due to start did _not_ start

    (iv) monthly cups that were due to start _did_ start

    (v) GoE did _not_ start.

  • wccanard at 2009-09-21

    Even though vacation days got used, game 1069910 still did not finish!

    Check out the amazing


    yeradigo did not move now for *60 days* [it was his move on 23 July and I am writing this message on 21 September, 60 days later] and still he/she did not time out.

  • HappyHippo at 2009-09-21

    I have three games with yeradigo as well, all of which have not had a move in 60 days like yours

  • wccanard at 2009-09-21

    GoE is back up and running so we're probably all back to normal. Hooray! M. Seymour—it's not my game, it's just a game, but this is just a pedantic point.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-09-21

    yeradigo joined littlegolem on July 23 and is not a member. he/she has won 3 games all by time. he/she made no more than one move in some of his/her games (on July 23)

    He/she is still showing on vacation as of today. More than likely will forfeit all games soon, so watching this player should be able to determine exactly how many vacation days were added due to the August down times.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-09-21

    yeradido has 102 games in progress

  • Shemp Duchamp at 2009-09-22

    Yeradigo's games have started to end.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-09-22

    so it looks like 61 days of inactivity for Yeradigo. (thanks wccanard for calculating this and sending me a message). So what does this mean? 240 hours is 10 days which is when his vacation should have kicked in, and 20 days of vacation gives him 30 days before he should have timed out of his games. I know Richard added a few days (I got somewhere between 3 and 5 extra days of vacation added back due to the outage in August). I wonder why it took 61 days for him to time out? surely he did not have 51 days of vacation, did he? Perhaps his negative hours were not converted into vacation days? any ideas?

  • Dvd Avins at 2009-09-22

    I think any negative hours are converted to 24 positive hours, at the expense of one vacation day. Also, though until a few years ago timeouts and vacation days happened as soon as “1 hour” was gone, now each day has either approximately or exactly 25 hours when vacation is being charged. Kind of days in the Jewish calendar, which overlap because they begin at sundown and end the next day at dark.

  • wccanard at 2009-09-23

    At some point yeradigo will have been on things like -100 hours, when the daemon was down for 4-5 days, which happened recently, and then he loses 0 vacation days, and when the daemon restarts he only loses one. And then he gets bonus days for some undisclosed reason from Richard. And the days the site was down don't count either (I think there were about 2 of these in the last 2 months). This is all clutching at straws however, because it never gets anywhere near to 60. This was the reason I brought up the topic on another thread. I'm reluctant to bump this thread with this discussion; I tend to only bump it when the daemon is down.

  • Bernhard Herwig at 2009-09-24

    I have got an explanation for the 61 days: all vacation days between the 22nd of july and the 22nd of august got deleted. (The dates could easily be a few days of.)

    As Yeradigo took 20 days of vacation during that time he got 20 days back on his account. I took nearly 10 days of vacation then, and got nearly ten days back. Maybe Ray could confirm that he took about 4 days of vacation in that period, which are not longer on his list.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-09-24

    I think that the correct explanation is a combination of the above three comments.

    I was really on vacation from Aug. 14 through Aug 22. My vacation time probably kicked on on Aug 16 or so. When I got back on Aug 22 I was encountering problems with little golem but I was showing vacation days as expected, then Richard gave back all the vacation days that I incurred on my actual week long vaction, and then I immediately lost another vacation day (Aug 23) due to time pressure and little golem downages. I also currently show a vacation day that I incurred on July 31. So Perhaps Richard returned all vacation days from Aug.1 through Aug 21 or Aug 22? So let's say he returned 21 vacation days. So yeradigo had 41 vacation days plus his original 240 hours for a total of 51 days. That leaves 10 days unaccounted for, and these additional 10 days can be explained by Dvd Avins and wccanards explanation of many negative hours being convereted into positive 24 hours at the expense of only one vacation day.

    We will never know exactly how many vacation days were added unless Richard tells us, but the good thing is that things are running smooth (for now)

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-09-25

    I spoke too soon…things are not so smooth! I have an opponent at -6 hours :(

  • richyfourtytwo ★ at 2009-09-27


  • christian freeling at 2009-09-30

    Game Time Opponent Rating Tournament Moves

    1082031 0 hours Ronek info 1484 Havannah - rated game 5

    1081307 1 hours Ronek info 1484 Havannah - rated game 11

    Ronek has now twice hit -75, yoyoing between 24 and 0 a couple of times in between and indeed afterwards.

    I wonder how often he will yoyo now before he hits the next -75?

    Can he reach -100?


  • ypercube ★ at 2009-09-30

    My yoyoing opponent is named thriller :)

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2009-10-18

    negative times are showing again and the monthly cups are not starting. I noticed that on Oct 16 that Richard temporarily shut down LG to do some updating, and that is probably when the problem began….

  • Dvd Avins at 2009-11-04

    *bump* -sigh-

  • Nevermind at 2009-11-05

    negative time has been ticking for almost 24 hours

  • Dvd Avins at 2009-11-22

    Monthly cup sections and the chess championship are being held up.

  • mikabast at 2010-02-05

    bump 1148858

  • quartastella at 2010-02-24


  • Aganju at 2010-02-24

    negative times…

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-02-25

    -15 hours!!

  • Aganju at 2010-02-25

    my opponent has -24.

  • quartastella at 2010-04-13


  • kingofthebesI at 2010-04-13


  • quartastella at 2010-04-18


  • christian freeling at 2010-04-18


  • Gregorlo at 2010-04-18

    -15 :(

  • somar96 at 2010-04-18

    I have -1 days of vacation left :P

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2010-04-18

    A known bug.

  • somar96 at 2010-04-18

    oh ok

  • quartastella at 2010-05-11


  • somar96 at 2010-05-11


  • Aganju at 2010-05-12

    I wonder - if you are at -37 hours, and you make a move, do you lose immediately on time? or will you have -1 hour? or 36?

    Anyone ever tried?

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-05-12

    Can you change empathy answers after the time limit?

  • Dvd Avins at 2010-05-12

    Yes, until the game actually ends.

  • ypercube ★ at 2010-05-13

    Aganju, if you are at -37, or -377 or minus -3777, it doesn't matter, I think that your clock is set to +36.

    So, if you have a game at -something, hurry up and play :)

  • Aganju at 2010-05-13

    are you kidding? I never get below +200 in my games (except in special circumstances).

  • quartastella at 2010-05-13


  • kingofthebesI at 2010-05-14


  • MarleysGhost at 2010-05-14

    I've said this before. If it were me and the “daemon” stopped working this often (i.e. once every few months), I'd be looking for a daemon-free alternative, or rewriting the daemon to have error recovery.

    I guess the way it works now is, for example, the software writes records to some database as players sign up for a monthly tournament in some particular game. Then the daemon looks at the records every hour or so, and while there are 5 or more records for that game, it starts a tournament for 5 players who have signed up but not yet been assigned a tournament.

    A daemon-free alternative would be to make the software that inserts a new waiting-player record check to see if there are now 5 players waiting, and if there are, start a new tournament immediately without waiting for any daemon. Yes, you need serialization for this approach (more than a single-threaded daemon needs), but I've always been able to come up with a design that makes the database's serialization facilities suffice (e.g. all conflicts can be resolved by using the database's property that only one insert of a new record with the same primary index field values can succeed.).

    Granted, if the problem is an error encountered by the tournament-start code, the daemon-free code would have the same problem. But I think it's fairly unlikely that all the daemon's activities that could be made daemon-free would be encountering errors at the same time, while when the daemon stops, everything it does comes to halt, not just the activity encountering an error.

  • MichaeI X at 2010-05-14

    And who's triggering a new Empathy round then ?

    Granted, you can turn this into a daemon-free user-interaction as well. Whenever somebody thinks some action should have started, “they” (thanks, FatPhil for bringing 'singular they' to my attention ;) could click a link and get a response like " no action required now, but thanks for keeping Little Golem alive " or " thanks for reminding me to start new tournaments "

  • Aganju at 2010-05-14

    Well, on first glance I see a risk and a difference:

    - The difference is that currently, after the fifth player signed up, it takes some minutes for the tournament to start, so you can use that to sign up and remove yourself within seconds to see your current rating (I do that sometimes). With the new technique, you clicked it, you bought it. But I can see that this is not a relevant loss, you learn quickly (in the office, we would call that 'a training issue'…)

    - the risk (also not sooo severe): if the code starting a tournament is running behind a players click, it is a little bit more open for hacks. Right now, all you hack into is your name getting in the list.

    Another simple solution would be to run the demon under 'cron', or run a code under 'cron' that restarts the demon if its not answersing. Or kill and restart the demon every midnight. It should be relatively easy to stabilize this thing?

    And before you ask, yes, windows does have 'cron' too. It's called differently but provides the equivalent functionality.

  • MarleysGhost at 2010-05-14

    @Michael: The jsp that displays your answers could trigger the new game if the old game's time limit has passed. If no one's looking at the GoE page then the new game wouldn't start “on time”, but that fact would be unobservable. (Well, almost unobservable. You could also put triggers in the detailed-results page and the past-games page.)

    @Phil: You've been justifying singular 'they'? You're younger than I thought.

    @Aganju: The current daemon may well be being started every midnight or every 10 minutes, by cron or Scheduled Tasks or otherwise. If it checks the activities it can perform in some deterministic order, and the first activity it attempts is the one in which it encounters the error that causes it to quit or wait forever or loop forever or whatever, we'd see the same symptoms as a daemon which is started manually only.

  • Aganju at 2010-05-14

    @MarleysGhost: [first paragraph] I like that idea, 'unobservable'. It's a bit like in quantum mechanics, if nobody looks (=measures), the system all all kind of contradicting stuff in parallel (superpositioned). But you are right. Except that if someone clicks on the page after a long time, it would maybe take a moment as it has to complete all the things first. But that would be ok.

    [last paragraph] Ok. I would have assumed that such simple errors ('simple' like in 'infinitely reproducible with a known activity sequence') would be simple to debug and remove, and therefore already removed. But that might not be the case.

  • MarleysGhost at 2010-05-14

    @Aganju, yes, the player whose click triggers the next GoE game would have to wait for some processing to complete. But surely not the 70 hours that we've been waiting for the daemon!

  • Aganju at 2010-05-14

    maybe the demon comes by every 72 hours, and at -72, he will come again and finish that round of empathy? Let's hope for it.

  • FatPhil at 2010-05-15

    @MG - Supporting a construction attested in the KJV makes me young? I wonder what I'd have to do in order to come over as old?

    Turn that music down! Not that that noise is “music” anyway!

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-05-15

    My time isn't getting updated I should have got an extra 36 hours for making a move :(

  • somar96 at 2010-05-15


  • Aganju at 2010-05-15

    guess Richard is gone for the long weekend…

    I'm getting low on games to play now, as nothing new is starting… :-(

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2010-05-15

    I just this minute got a reply from Richard concerning the problem:

    “There is some new problem. I am solving this. Thanks.”

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-05-15


    If you get desperately short of games RoRoRo accepts challenges.

  • somar96 at 2010-05-16

    I can play too ;)

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2010-05-20

    once again

  • Aganju at 2010-05-20

    although games work again, Empathy is stuck (as before)

  • Aganju at 2010-05-20

    wrong, everything is hung again.

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-05-21


  • somar96 at 2010-05-21

    -10 hours -44 minutes

    That is also wrong, because it should be 13 hours 12 minutes! It's counting until today midnight instead of yesterday midnight!

  • Aganju at 2010-05-21

    ?? consider a) the server is in a different time zone, and b) the server clock is at least 11 minutes off (I know because of the 'hit-new-year-midnight'-thread)

  • somar96 at 2010-05-21

    yeah I know the zones. but the minutes don't fit, even including the 11 minutes. simple maths ;)

  • Aganju at 2010-05-22

    I see your point.

    Well, the code was probably not made to handle negative numbers correctly, so it messes up.

    It gets a bit obnoxious… second week in a row where more than 50% of the time timeouts don't work, and no new tournaments start. I struggle to imagine that there are so many different errors in that code, so it's probably not fixed at all, just restarted.

  • somar96 at 2010-05-23


  • slaapgraag at 2010-05-24

    -81 h

    Will we reach -100?

    My guess: yes

  • Aganju at 2010-05-24

    the timeout demon made a short appearance, but it is already dead again.

    And Empathy is still sitting.

  • slaapgraag at 2010-05-24

    empathy is fine now. My guess was wrong.

  • Aganju at 2010-05-29

    Empathy time is negative again.

    Maybe that's the crash-maker?

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2010-05-29

    I just this hour had one of my opponents go into vacation mode and get 24 more hours instead of negative time

  • quartastella at 2010-06-03


  • Aganju at 2010-06-03

    and again…

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-06-04


  • Aganju at 2010-06-07

    bump (Empathy)

  • Aganju at 2010-07-04


  • somar96 at 2010-07-05

    still bump

  • Hjallti at 2010-07-05

    I don't see why you are bumping this, you might use 'whine' rather than 'bump' next time, or is this useful?

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-07-05

    -3 hours became +37 hours for those speculating on how negative time is dealt with.

  • MichaeI X at 2010-07-05

    Empathy time is still negative (-13 hours)

    Perhaps the timer waits to allow for some more participants :)

  • Aganju at 2010-07-05

    @ Hiallti: I think it is useful - it will show everybody coming in to LG immediately that the timer is broken, and games do not get terminated by running out of time. I think that this is a fact worth knowing (compare to the importance facts discussed in other threats…)

    Also, Richard is known to be around sometimes, and if he sees this, he might act on it.

  • kyle douglas at 2010-07-05

    i just have a game with -1 hours

  • MichaeI X at 2010-07-06

    … And there were 3 more participants to contribute to Game of Empathy!

    But now , with 43 hours of GoE overtime, I prefer to see what is most related to whining and bumping

  • Aganju at 2010-08-24

    bump (Empathy -2 hours)

  • somar96 at 2010-08-25

    bump - 9

  • Elisa Kabiljo at 2010-09-07


  • quartastella at 2010-09-07


  • Elisa Kabiljo at 2010-09-17


  • somar96 at 2010-09-17


  • bored of DB at 2010-09-17

    -15 hours

    Game #1229860




  • Aganju at 2010-09-17

    I have games with -26 hours: #1232216, also Empathy has -26 h.

    Looks like Empathy is always the first one to blow. Maybe the bug is there?

  • Methylphenidate at 2010-09-18

    bump because i was the person who got into -12 hours left, but i saved a vacation day by playing them now. :)

  • Gregorlo at 2010-09-18

    after losing 3 vacation days, I come back and I find the -2hours issue… that's not fair _

  • somar96 at 2010-09-18

    -35 hours in my games…

  • bored of DB at 2010-09-18

    -39 HRS FOR ME NOW!!!….. O_O

  • Aganju at 2010-09-18


    You can check Empathy - it shows the max negative time, because 'Empathy End' is the moment when the demon dies.

  • Dvd Avins at 2010-09-19

    Are you sure about that Aganju? Has that been noticed before?

  • Aganju at 2010-09-19

    I noticed it several time, but I only consciously realized it this time.

    Let's see if anyone has a higher - time than the current empathy display.

  • Dvd Avins at 2010-09-19

    If true, and if Richard is made aware, it would make it much easier to de-bug. When did GoE get added? I think I remember the problem is older than that, but I hope I'm wrong.

  • pfafulous at 2010-09-19

    So something like this prevents someone from entering every MC if there are more than 10 signed up when it's fixed, I imagine? Not that I was trying for it, and not that it matters much, but I guess that's a goal not worth attempting were one so inclined.

  • Aganju at 2010-09-19

    I don't think the MCs are affected in any way (except the delay); when the demon is 'reincarnated', it will take the first five and start a MC, and then the next 5 and so on.

  • Aganju at 2010-09-19

    Oh, now I got it… you cannot be in each MC because if you are in the first five you cannot be in the second five… yes.

  • bored of DB at 2010-09-19

    wow.. -60s hrs now …..




  • Aganju at 2010-09-20

    games have been timed out now, but Empathy is still hanging

  • somar96 at 2010-09-20

    Yes I won something by timeout too

  • Aganju at 2010-09-20

    looks like it was not 'fixed', just triggered once.

    People are collecting up in the monthly tournaments again, and Empathy is still pending, with -97 hours.

  • slaapgraag at 2010-09-21

    Yeah! GoE is over 100 hours of downtime! Free cake for everyone!

  • slaapgraag at 2010-09-21


  • somar96 at 2010-09-21


  • bored of DB at 2010-09-21


  • Aganju at 2010-09-23

    -hours for Empathy, as usual

  • Aganju at 2010-10-17

    -time for Empathy, as usual

  • Aganju at 2010-10-26

    -time for Empathy, as usual

  • Dvd Avins at 2010-11-25

    It's happening again. And Empathy has days left.

  • Aganju at 2010-11-25

    yeah for me too.

  • kingofthebesI at 2010-11-26


  • Aganju at 2010-11-26

    two of my opponents that (should have) lost on time already made a move now, and they are back to 36 hours

  • pfafulous at 2010-11-26

    Some days you get the elevator, other days you get the shaft.

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2010-12-14


  • Dvd Avins at 2010-12-15

    It's been a couple of days. I hope this doesn't persist as it has in other Decembers, making games and tournaments that should be over drag out until the end of January.

  • Dvd Avins at 2010-12-16

    Just fixed, and pages are loading quickly.

  • Aganju at 2010-12-31

    bump. Here we go again.

    Looks like all those new games blew the timer demon.

  • pfafulous at 2011-03-28

    Uh oh.

    Been a while, too.

  • groeneveld at 2011-03-29

    I also have an opponent who is on -6 hours,

    just have to wait,but till howlong??

  • Aganju at 2011-03-29

    I have one with -32 hours. I think the record is -111 hours, so don't hold your breath.

  • groeneveld at 2011-04-03

    how long has a player to do 1 move.

    I ´m still waiting in a game,last move from opponent

    was on 8th of March ??

    is there something like timelimit,or not ??

  • isometry at 2011-04-03

    This is, not surprisingly, answered in the FAQ.

  • groeneveld at 2011-04-03

    thanks for your reply, i shall wait till one month is over

  • groeneveld at 2011-04-04

    where can i see how many days of vacation my opponent

    has.if he´s on holiday ??

    or is this also in the FAQ

  • isometry at 2011-04-04

    There is no way of telling how many vacation days a player has left without monitoring how many he is using, or asking him. I asked Richard several years ago to add remaining vacation days on the profiles, and he said it was a good idea, but he never implemented it.

  • Aganju at 2011-06-23

    Here we go again.

  • Aaron Coombs at 2011-06-24


  • slaapgraag at 2011-06-25

    showing opponents vacation days could be a membership advantage?

  • Aganju at 2011-06-25

    the question is - does it give you an unfair advantage in playing?

    I think yes, but minuscule.

    If someone is out or nearly out of vacation, you could drag on a game more than you would otherwise. Some players I can deduct a pattern from their play, like they play only weekends or only evenings. So I can just not answer until the weekend/evening is over, there denying them another 36 hours on the clock for another move, and then they might lose vacation during the week.

    I'm not saying this is a commendable plan, but it is possible, and knowing someone's remaining vacation could help it. But at the same time I think the advantage it gives is so microscopic, it would be ok.

    So - seconded.

  • Got Twixt at 2011-06-27


  • Dvd Avins at 2011-06-28

    Richard himself is now in negative time in his games against me. I hope he notices soon.

  • slaapgraag at 2011-06-29

    over 100 hours! Beer is on me!

  • Aaron Coombs at 2011-06-29

    Who has the greatest negative time? I have a player on my game list that is -129hrs

  • MarleysGhost at 2011-06-29

    Anybody want to start a petition to request RM to rewrite LG to not use a daemon?

  • Aaron Coombs at 2011-06-29

    Does anyone know if Richard is OK, or why he hasn't been around in a while?

  • Aganju at 2011-06-29

    I have -148 ( Game 1335377).

  • Aaron Coombs at 2011-06-29

    That definitely beats my game http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1338714

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2012-07-06

    Once again….

  • bloke at 2012-07-08


  • groeneveld at 2012-07-08

    but how is it possible that a player
    has -57 hours ,and can still move
    but when my time is over,a vacation
    day is taken

    this sound strange??

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2012-07-08


  • groeneveld at 2012-07-08


  • Doctor_Strange at 2012-07-14

    broke again!

  • Phobos at 2012-07-15

    Yes, still broken. Also, the automatic monthly tournament start doesn't work. For example, for Hex 19x19 there are now 7 participants for the monthly tournament (the tournament should start as soon as 5 participants are registered).

  • Tom Ace ★ at 2012-07-16

    bumpity bump

  • Xenophon at 2012-07-17

    Is there just the one admin on this site?

  • FatPhil at 2012-07-17

    It seems that way. There used to be another who helped out with the actual webserver hosting, but not with the site itself, IIRC. A bit more redundancy would be useful, certainly.

  • hershoff at 2012-07-18

    -150, still increasing :-/

  • hershoff at 2012-07-18

    -150, still increasing

  • bloke at 2012-07-18

    Well deserved, long vacation.

  • milesd at 2012-07-18

    I agree with bloke.

    what is the record of days without monthly championships nor time up?

  • groeneveld at 2012-07-18

    i find if a player stand on -150 hours he should lost the game

  • bloke at 2012-07-18

    If there are two players who have not made a move for more than 10 days and lost all of their vacation days, it may happen that one of them can stand at -480 hours.

  • hershoff at 2012-07-19

    Any negativ number can appear, unless the time out task runs again.
    But is is not neccessary that both players do not make move, as just one players clock is running.

  • Ricardo (Santos) ★ at 2012-07-19

    Now one of my opponents is really deep down… -174 hours and still descending…

  • FatPhil at 2012-07-19

    I'm with bloke an milesd. I just hope Richard is enjoying a holiday, maybe relaxing with his family and taking things easy, and I hope we don't make him regret coming home finally when he reads our “wah, wah, wahhhh!“.

  • bloke at 2012-07-19

    On the other hand, while enjoying his holidays, Richard is very close to lose some precious vacation days. Will he time out in some of his matches?

  • slaapgraag at 2012-07-20

    I follow Richards good example - goiing on holiday tomorrow.

  • Knyx at 2012-07-20

    So when he comes back, what will happen to the timed out games? Will they be forfeited, or will the opponent's vacation days kick in?

  • bloke at 2012-07-20

    In this order. This is sort of a grace period for the laggards (like me sometimes), if they do not have more vacation days, they lose the games in which it is their turn, if they have some more vacation days, then they lose one day – no matter how many minus hours they have accumulated.

  • Xenophon at 2012-07-20

    In other words, if you are going to be taking a long vacation, it might be a good idea to take Richard along with you ;)

  • MarleysGhost at 2012-07-20

    I conclude from postings to this topic during May 2010, June 2011 and July 2012 that Richard goes on vacation every 13 months. :)

  • groeneveld at 2012-07-20

    i find if a player stand on -150 hours he should lost the game

  • Tommah at 2012-07-20

    One of my games is at -196 hours. I'm claiming a moral victory.

  • FatPhil at 2012-07-21

    Posting four hours later than you, and I have an opponent at -201 hours, which I think just puts me in the lead. (so far)

  • Christian K at 2012-07-21

    -203 hours posting 2 hours later I guess makes us equal

  • Ricardo (Santos) ★ at 2012-07-21

    Well, one of my opponents has -210 in one game and -209 in another… Have I then got both first and second place ? :) Anyway, to me it is not a big deal, once every 13th month is fine and I also wish Richard nice and relaxing holidays. This site is not about stress, it is about enjoying games, thinking, reflexting, discussing and having patience ;)

  • Lazy Twits at 2012-07-21

    -226 hours one of my games

    ? has the timeout routine
    1. stopped running
    2. been rewriten and does not work (yes I've done programming)
    10. new rules on timeouts?
    100. time has changed speed!

  • christian freeling at 2012-07-21

    Do all deamons die if their master is on vacation, or is it just like Schwarzenegger 'an old model'?

  • chianti at 2012-07-21

    Daemons are like electric sheep.

  • FatPhil at 2012-07-23

    So, what do they dream of?

  • hershoff at 2012-07-23

    -271, even if the opponent makes his move now and gets another 240 hours, the result is still negativ ;)

  • bloke at 2012-07-23

    @FatPhil: Only Philip K. Dick (Fat K. Phil in German) could tell.

  • Crelo at 2012-07-24

    @hershoff, I think Richard will restore the games lost on time. He did this before. It has something to do with vacation days.

  • Paradoxx at 2012-07-24

    Richard himself stands at -100 hours in two of his WYPS games against me. I hope he is all right.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2012-07-24

    I noticed that littlegolem was down all day Sunday. When it came back on-line, I thought everything would be fixed, but maybe the server was down and maybe Richard is camping in the mountains or something. It makes one wonder if there is a back up plan….someone to take over in case something does happen to Richard…

  • Hjallti at 2012-07-24

    If been wandering along the same lines…

    Is Marek Malaschitz still around?

  • christian freeling at 2012-07-24

    I guess we'll soon find out, one way or the other.

  • bloke at 2012-07-24

    I wonder what the other way would be.

  • kingofthebesI at 2012-07-24

    -184 for Richard in a shogi game!

  • Robert Mathew at 2012-07-25

    I hope this isn't the end of golem.

  • CleverHunk steven cullum at 2012-07-25

    1443048 -309 hours Emilia Karbownik info 1557 einstein.mc.2012.apr.1.11 3-points match

  • MarleysGhost at 2012-07-25

    Is this the record? Is this the longest the daemon has been dormant?

  • christian freeling at 2012-07-25

    Puff, the dormant daemon lived by the sea
    And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honah Lee

  • groeneveld at 2012-07-25

    @clever Hunk

    no i have in 1 game -311 hours

  • Rafael Marques at 2012-07-25

    1460113 -320 hours in a game against Gerald.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2012-07-25

    Richard lives! He just made his moves against me in our games….still negative time showing on some games, though…I suspect we will see a fix today….

  • Paradoxx at 2012-07-25

    I second on that: Richard indeed is back!

  • milesd at 2012-07-25

    long live Richard :)

  • Knyx at 2012-07-25

    For the record, I have -314 in one of my games. I'm sure someone can top that, but it's the top of any currently posted score.

  • Ricardo (Santos) ★ at 2012-07-26

    In my game against Gerald -326 :)

  • Wassily Pupkind at 2012-07-26

    Just checked my games to see if I have any with Gerald. Got one, but only -312 :-)

  • Hjallti at 2012-07-26

    I sure hope Richard returns before Gerald.

  • Foul Ole Ron at 2012-07-26

    -338 against mihaiemil and huron

  • Crelo at 2012-07-26

    Oups, Gerald timed-out!

  • MarleysGhost at 2012-07-26

    Back to normal at last. Whew!

  • groeneveld at 2012-07-26

    no not really

    player who was on -300 got another day extra
    and i got a message about a vacation day

    this is not right

  • Xenophon at 2012-07-26


  • kingofthebesI at 2012-09-24


  • Christian K at 2012-09-26

    ..what the original poster said.

  • bloke at 2012-09-28

    Four days and counting.

  • christian freeling at 2012-09-28

    Does anything start at all? I'm waiting with 6 others in the rated games base-10, and with 9 others in the monthly cup: http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/games/gamedetail.jsp?gtid=havannah

  • Marius Halsor at 2012-09-28

    Negative time and tournaments not starting seems to be correlated (as it has been in the past). I guess no one will time out and no tournament will start until the problem is fixed.

  • slaapgraag at 2012-10-02

    GOE is -200 hours! This round is on me! Beer, anyone?

  • FatPhil at 2012-10-02

    Beer, at this time of the morning?
    Nope, I think I'll stick to just a whisky, thank you.

  • Wassily Pupkind at 2012-10-02

    I hope some day Richard will add the time check in game.jsp. You can't always trust cron :)

  • MarleysGhost at 2012-10-02

    What things are working, sans daemon?
    1. Making moves
    2. Getting end-of-game messages
    3. Forum
    4. Messages sent manually

    What things are not working?
    1. Players losing games by timing out
    2. New monthly cup tournaments starting
    3. User tournaments starting on their start date
    4. Game of Empathy rolling over

    What about
    A. Championships starting?
    B. Second and third rounds of monthly cups, user tournaments and championships starting?
    C. Accepted invitations' games starting?

  • Lazy Twits at 2012-10-02

    time is reported correctly when playing moves

    so suspect event timer routine has crashed (re-written, re-compiled, different system, memory, virus, etc)

    could test if running when a game shows negative time

    having a reset event after 24 hours would not work because it's not running!

  • Shemp Duchamp at 2012-10-02

    Regarding MarleysGhost's item C, above, Accepted Invitations' games ARE starting. Just had one go.

  • MarleysGhost at 2012-10-02

    Based on the upcoming championships thread, it looks like
    A. Championships starting
    is not working. Also, it sounds like among the not working is
    5. Waiting room pairings

  • ypercube ★ at 2012-10-03

    … and Golem has awaken from the coma.

  • MarleysGhost at 2012-10-08

    For the benefit of future historians, note: littlegolem.net was offline from some time on Friday (2012-10-05) until early Monday (2012-10-08).

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2012-10-08

    Also note, that some games timed out during the long outage, and after the system was restored, everyone suddenly got all their vacation days restored to 20 (or 30 for members)

  • Chaosu at 2012-10-08

    I timeouted 25 games and lost a lot of ranking : /

  • LeCanardfou at 2012-10-08

    Regardless of timeout issues, it would be great if Richard could at least communicate about it. Just a sentence on downtime for example.

  • Marius Halsor at 2012-10-08

    I agree, but these things usually happens when Richard is on vacation or something, and I guess he's often not even aware that it has happened.

  • christian freeling at 2012-10-08

    He's currently traveling through Mongolia, and the reindeer carrying his server escaped.

  • Knyx at 2012-10-08

    I do often feel like there is less communication than I would like about these issues. While yes, everyone should take the precaution of leaving extra time on their games in case of issues like this, it feels unusually randomly cruel especially when the website is down for DAYS at a time.

  • David Milne ★ at 2012-10-08

    For people who complain that Richard could be a little more responsive ( have a greater workload ) , I ask, are you members? If you are not a member, I think it is a bit rich to complain about the short comings of the hired help, because Richard is not your hired help :-)

  • Carroll ★ at 2012-10-09

    I am a member, but I think you mix two different things:

    - I do not feel Richard owes me anything,
    - I think Richard is trying to please the users of his site, and then it is legitimate to say what would make us the users more happy with LG. And yes, some more communication on this public place would make us happier.

    For a comparison, imagine you have a public free museum in the town nearby (eg. paid with the taxes). The quality of the exibitions there makes you happy to come regularly, but there is no regularity on the hours when it is open. Aren’t you entitled to be disappointed when you get there in the afternoon with gf and find it closed with no notice for any cause?

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2012-12-19

    Bump (tournaments not starting)

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2012-12-25

    Bump (tournaments not starting)

  • Tasmanian Devil at 2012-12-29

    Bump (tournaments not starting)

  • Yibyab at 2013-01-08

    I have TwixT game that was started on 12/1/2012. My opponent hasn't connected since 11/25/2012, which is the day he/she registered. And yet the game won't time out. He keeps going into negative territory for time to move (currently at -28), and every once in awhile, it'll reset and he'll have +24 or more hours, but then it just winds down into the negative again.

    I'm guessing he loses a single vacation day every time LittleGolem resets, regardless of how far into the negative he's gone. And with the new year, I imagine his vacation day balance was reset to 10.

    At this rate, this game – without a single move being played – will last into April.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2013-01-12

    vacation was reset to twenty…

    negative time/non starting tournaments happens from time to time, but it has been happening quite a bit lately…

  • Tom Ace ★ at 2013-01-12

    Does anyone know what it would take to improve this situation?
    Is it a question of manpower (I'd expect there would be volunteers
    if asked for), money, … ? This site is a great resource and
    I'd love to see it thrive rather than be dysfunctional.

    It's been pretty bad for the past few weeks: games not
    starting, empathy not being scored, … .

  • bloke at 2013-01-15

    Mind boggling. Perhaps we should all buy a WYPS board to ensure the site works more smoothly.

    There is a guy who signed up for a WYPS tourney on November 21, never made a move, and he has still not lost a game. 10 days procrastination, 20 days vacation, and ten more days as gifts because the clock was not reset – all this before December 31, and the next day the whole thing has started over…

  • Christian K at 2013-01-16

    I signed up as a member in faith that it would help slightly. Hard to meassure if it worked :)

    My feeling is that it is a matter of a time daemon which has to be reset once in a while. Maybe this could be automated?

  • bloke at 2013-01-17

    Two more days for the procrastinators. That IS automatic :/

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2013-01-21

    littlegolem was down for a long period of time today, I thought all would be corrected when it came back up, but nope! still broke…

  • groeneveld at 2013-01-21

    i find that everybody should get maximum thinking time

    not some,and others not

  • groeneveld at 2013-03-02

    it happened again all my games were safe
    still one vacation day was stolen….

    this is really not fair

  • erratic at 2013-03-17


  • erratic at 2013-03-19

    ping again

  • GoBuster at 2013-07-23

    Its been some time, but yet again……….

  • bloke at 2013-07-24

    Bumpity bump.
    More than two days off.

  • William Fraser at 2013-11-19

    Bump bump bump

  • William Fraser at 2013-11-21

    Still not up. I've got an opponent at -57 hours…..

  • The_Shark_c at 2013-11-22

    The_Shark_c has an opponent with -94 hours!

  • William Fraser at 2013-11-23

    -124 hours. Bump bump bump

  • Elisa Kabiljo at 2014-05-11


    more than 2 days

  • William Fraser at 2014-05-18


  • Elisa Kabiljo at 2014-06-30


  • JohnnyB at 2014-06-30

    At least one thing hasn't changed……

  • Tommah at 2014-06-30

    Vote chess is stuck too.

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-07-01


  • William Fraser at 2014-07-02


    -87 hours!

  • mtbikesman at 2014-07-03

    Anybody got any idea when things will start to work again?

  • morphles at 2014-07-04

    Indeed a bumpy ride :)

  • Lazy Twits at 2014-07-05

    time daemon stopping

    either split up into several tasks

            i.e holiday


                  tournament start

                  garbage collection (a defrag for memory)


    run two daemons (split in half) that check that each other is running

                (a bit like the two hemi-spheres of most animals brains)

                        [the right hand controlled by the left hemi-sphere can whack the right side of head to restart that hemi-sphere]

  • shalev at 2014-07-08


    If this lasts another week, we'll break the record for most negative hours ever…

  • bloke at 2014-07-09

    That is the point. Richard plays his games so he is around. But this is the usual summer vacation extension period when everyone gets a couple free vacation days.

  • shalev at 2014-07-14

    Not again! -2 hours…

    For posterity, let me point out that the negative time bug was fixed around July 9 and returned again around July 14.

  • shalev at 2014-07-20

    Broken yet again. The Hex13 championship is about to start - I hope this won't prevent it from starting…

  • Tom Ace ★ at 2014-07-21

    -30 is the new 30.

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-07-22

    -12 hours for my opponent right now. Just to keep this topic on top…

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-07-22
  • shalev at 2014-07-24


  • Tony at 2014-07-24

    Many people have sensible demands for a smooth working littlegolem. But many people do not donate a yearly fee to the site. I do not donate yearly, I'm just happy when the site works and I say thank you every day!

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-07-25

    -33 hours :-(

  • Oakmoss at 2014-07-25

    I believe Feynman said that antiparticles can be thought of as particles traveling backward in time. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but maybe what we're seeing isn't a broken daemon but one that's allowing antigames to pass harmlessly by instead of interacting with them and irradiating the server with vast quantities of gamma particles and a spontaneous lesson in particle physics.

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-07-26

    Well ok, lets just be patient and wait until Richard comes home from shopping (or holiday…)

  • shalev at 2014-07-27

    Bump. Tournaments are not starting!

  • shalev at 2014-07-29


  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-07-29

    Hm, -131 hours for one of my opponents…

  • wanderer_bot at 2014-07-29

    I have that beat: -227

  • shalev at 2014-07-29

    I think the all-time record is -338, although there were probably a few hours between when the 338 was posted and when the bug was fixed. So if this lasts 5 or 6 more days, wanderer_c will break the record!

  • mtbikesman at 2014-07-29

    I am up to -229 on one game of Twixt.

  • fhourplay at 2014-07-30

    Let's see who is the first to get to -2^8  = -256  hours…

  • wanderer_bot at 2014-07-30

    I'm 11 hours away, so it should be around 7:00 PDT ( = 0200 UTC) .  :)

    P.S. Question about formatting UTC: Colon or no colon? 0200 or 02:00? or 2:00??

  • mtbikesman at 2014-07-30

    I am 8 hours away so I should be there by about 6:00 pm California time July 30th.

  • Tommah at 2014-07-30

    I have a game that's close to yours (it's at -250 hours right now)… whose will get there first?!?!?

  • Tommah at 2014-07-30

    -256 hours!

  • fhourplay at 2014-07-30

    Gratz, Tommah!

    I just got there myself in http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1643584

  • Tommah at 2014-07-30

    Ah, yes, I should have posted my game: http://littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=1643025

  • kingofthebesI at 2014-07-31


  • mtbikesman at 2014-07-31

    -271 one one game of Twixt

  • Tommah at 2014-07-31

    I've never been so proud!  I feel the way I did when I found out I held the record for longest EWN game (11.5 months or so).

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-07-31

    I'm out of competition. My top negative has moved. Now Rororo leads my list with -82.

  • Mirko Rahn at 2014-07-31

    -276 in a street soccer game

  • Christian K at 2014-08-01


  • David J Bush ★ at 2014-08-01

    Guilt and remorse

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-01

    -294 in Twixt at 8:45 am California time August 1st.

  • Tommah at 2014-08-01

    -305 hours!

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-02

    -309 Whee!  On our way to a new record.  This should give me a free win over David J. Bush, thank you very much

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-02

    Last move: 2014-06-13 22:19 for one game of twixt  That over a month and a half.

  • ypercube ★ at 2014-08-02

    Sorry, to report that Mirko is wiining the race - or to be precise, his opponent, unique.

    Their game is about 10-15 minutes ahead of Tommah-vs-vic (sorry guys, you get silver medal) which is another 15-20 minutes ahead of the mtbikesman-vs-yazfan3 game (bronze is good).

    In fact, unique has about 100 game going and about 10 of them are competing for the 1st plcae :)

  • Tommah at 2014-08-02

    Nooooooo!  Come on, unique, make a move!

  • Elsabio at 2014-08-02

    1644601 -325h

  • Mirko Rahn at 2014-08-02

    I contributed to unique's record by making his clock running. So partly it is my record. Yeah, I did it! B-)

  • Mirko Rahn at 2014-08-02

    BTW, when a player with negative time left makes a move, he or she ends up with 36 hours. I consider this a bug. (It is not clear to me how this can happen: The formula seems to be “36 + max (old_time, 0)” instead of “36 + old_time” and the max makes no sense to me.)

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-02

    -325 hours at 3:35 pm California time

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-03

    -351  Closing in on the record.

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-04

    Ryan, I think I got you beat by four days.  June 13th vs June 17th


  • William Fraser at 2014-08-04

    Mtbikesman, I bet you opponent took 4 days of vacation (roughly ten days into the game) then started counting negative around the same time Ryan's did.

  • na_wspak at 2014-08-04

    This game is also interesting.

  • terrance806 at 2014-08-04

    There seems to be a few games all around the same (currently -361)


  • sspring at 2014-08-04

    seems interrupted. hardly to believe it simply sleeps, and so often! it's mature language anyway.  Handled all runtime exceptions?

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-04

    Does anyone have a game with the last move before June 13th?

  • sspring at 2014-08-04

    Don't worry. you're the record keeper.

  • shalev at 2014-08-04

    At this point, the all-time record has officially been broken. Congratulations to all participants. Richard, feel free to fix the negative time bug now - we're done here.

  • chianti at 2014-08-04

    Some of my opponents stand at minus 371 hours. I guess this is the maximum any non-playing opponent could have in this moment.

  • Wickedestjr at 2014-08-04

    Any idea when this problem will be fixed?

  • fhourplay at 2014-08-04

    I'm betting on sometime this month, maybe in a week or two…

  • bloke at 2014-08-05

    No worries, this is an extra service provided by Richard. This way you can get more vacation days than the 20 per year otherwise allowed.

    It's summertime, time to slow down!

  • shalev at 2014-08-05

    Oh, come on. Let's not pretend this is okay. The negative time bug has been going on for like a month now (with some breaks in the middle). Tournaments are not starting, so there is no way to start new games. My vacation days are mostly unused, but I still need to check this site every once in a while in case the bug has been fixed.

    I know Richard doesn't owe me anything, but I think it's basic courtesy to at least let us know what's going on. And of course, many users pay for membership - surely Richard owes them an explanation.

  • Paulzz at 2014-08-05

    This should be close to the record


    (I hope Richard is ok)

  • wanderer_bot at 2014-08-05

    You seem to be part of a multi-way tie with that value. I have a game that's just 1 hour less (more?).

    (Ditto the Richard comment. As mentioned by somebody else in another thread, it's always worrisome when somebody inexplicably disappears.)

  • Tommah at 2014-08-05

    I'm playing Richard in two games, and his last moves were yesterday.  I think he's OK.

  • Tobias Lang at 2014-08-05

    I think Richard is - same as last year - on vacation with no direct connection to the server. He will be back and everything will be fine :)

  • bloke at 2014-08-05

    Richard is sure OK.  His vacation time is spent the same way as ours. :)

  • Tom Ace ★ at 2014-08-05

    I'm with Shalev.  I'm here to play, not to pretend it's

    entertaining to see how negative a number can go.

    Back when I was an LG member and this was happening

    I wrote to Richard offering help (either in coding or in

    manpower to watch over the site) and I got the impression

    (reinforced now by how often this problem is cropping up)

    that he didn't much care whether the site goes unresponsive.

  • bloke at 2014-08-05

    Richard sure cares about his site. Otherwise he would not have developed it.

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-05

    Paulzz, I got you beat by 14 days.  Last move June 13th


  • chianti at 2014-08-05

    Well, my opponents beat that. Minus 400 hours!



  • chianti at 2014-08-05

    Or this way.

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-05

    We all have -400 hours.

    The question is how long since the last move, or how long have you been waiting for a move?

    My oldest game has a last move at June 13th.

  • Nevermind at 2014-08-05

    Now minus-402. The last move here was on June 11.

  • keith630 at 2014-08-06

    I also play at Itsyourturn.com   —–  Its handy when Richard is taking a break…

  • keith630 at 2014-08-06

    I also play at Itsyourturn.com   —–  Its handy when Richard is taking a break…

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-06

    Ryan, looks like your June 7th is the longest wait for a move.  Anyone beat that?  Almost two months!

  • ypercube ★ at 2014-08-06

    @keith360: I also play at www.traxgame.com

    But it's the opposite. I've been waiting 5 months for a certain opponent to move there.

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-06

    Ypercube, I was referring to this web site.  On the TwixtLive site I have been waiting for over 19 months for some games.  They have not implemented a timeout feature and some games never ever end.

  • Gerhard Knop at 2014-08-06


  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-06

    Gerhard, your last move was in July, hardly in the running.

  • Hjallti at 2014-08-07

    Games are timing out!!!

  • Tobias Lang at 2014-08-07

    Welcome home Richard! :)

  • bloke at 2014-08-07

    Now we have to wait for another 12 months until the new record of 430 hours.

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-08-07

    So what is the precise record yet?

  • Tommah at 2014-08-07

    “I Survived the Great Little Golem Timeout Daemon Outage of 2014”

    Get your T-shirts now!

  • mtbikesman at 2014-08-07

    I think Ryan had the record waiting since June 7th for a move.  I had waited since June 13th for a move.

  • bloke at 2014-08-08

    It started again!


  • erratic at 2014-08-08


  • erratic at 2014-08-08

    Counterintuitively, this issue is lowering the time of ALL my games. I need the vacation system to pump 24 hours into the games to keep them 200-hourish and therefore playable (A whole 8 game tournament is way more I can handle without good time management.) I intentionally let one game timeout to pump time into the others.

    The system is well designed, but poorly implemented. When I return from vacation, I will have to quit my job, divorce and send my children to fosters home to catch up with my games. Of course I will do it, priorities are priorities.

    In the end I have more vacation days I need and all my games near zero in time.

  • bloke at 2014-08-08

    Horrible indeed.

    -9 hours.

  • William Fraser at 2014-08-09

    Actually, erratic, I don't think you're right that this issue is costing you time in a technical sense.

    I believe that having a vacation day in your account is worth at least as much as having 24 hours added to each of your games.  (You can always convert that vacation day to 24 hours later if you need to, but since some of your games haven't started yet, and because we are capped at 240 hours after making a move, the reverse is not true.)

    It could, however, be the case that you gain psychologically from feeling of freedom you get from having 200 hours on your clock, but not from having 20 days in your vacation store.  ymmv

  • Luka Stojanovic at 2014-08-24

    and again…


  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2014-08-25

    within the last hour, Richard took down the website for some kind of upgrade or something.  i though for sure he would fix the negative time problem, but nope!

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2014-08-25

    okay, now he has fixed it!

  • Richard Malaschitz ★ at 2014-08-25

    I hope it is fixed.

  • Luka Stojanovic at 2014-08-30



  • ypercube ★ at 2014-08-30

    Fixed now.

  • Tommah at 2014-09-08

    -12 hours…

  • Nagy Fathy ★ at 2014-09-08

    Not the only problem this time, all Twixt and Hex games are out of order!

  • Tommah at 2014-09-17

    Well this is new… one of my opponents has 288 hours!

  • erratic at 2014-09-17

    That is 100% normal. It was your turn when he was accumulating time from his spent vacation days. The normal strategy is to let only one game timeout and use the time of the vacations days to keep the other games 200 hourish (or more if your opponent does not answer). I have had over 300 hours. Otherwise when you return from vacation, you have all your games low in time.

  • Tommah at 2014-09-20

    Thanks, erratic.  Somehow I hadn't noticed before.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2014-09-27

    negative time again

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2014-09-28

    fixed today

  • erratic at 2014-11-22


  • erratic at 2014-11-22

    fixed! Just at the same time of my bump. Thank you.

  • William Fraser at 2014-11-29


  • Austral at 2014-11-30

    hi, i have games with bubulle, he played one time and now has negative time…

  • Austral at 2014-11-30

    negative time with jkd and thekudu too

  • Rafael Marques at 2014-12-16

    No negative time yet on my list of games, but in StreetSoccer there are five players waiting for a new tournament since a few hours and nothing happens. I assume it is only a matter of hours until we have negative time again.

  • William Fraser at 2014-12-17


  • William Fraser at 2014-12-19

    -63 hours

  • Rafael Marques at 2014-12-19

    Doesn't seem to be much interest in this topic this time. Maybe at -300 hours.

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-12-21

    -80 hours here :-(

  • Paul Wiselius at 2014-12-21

    That is: minus 80…

  • Rafael Marques at 2014-12-21

    -111 hours already

  • Lazy Twits at 2014-12-21


  • Tommah at 2014-12-21

    I think it's been fixed!

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2017-11-10

    haven't seen negative time in a long while (last post in this forum nearly three years ago), but one of my opponent's currently at negative five hours

  • William Fraser at 2017-12-13


  • mmKALLL ★ at 2017-12-18

    Looks like running out of vacation days forfeit the timed-out game, but also decrements the vacation day counter from 0 to -1. Perhaps having a negative amount of vacation days is what trips up the server?

  • _syLph_ at 2017-12-18

    I have never lost a game at 0 vacation days iirc. It first goes down to -1 and only then do you actually lose once time is up again.

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2018-01-05

    I have never lost a game on time at this site.  I tested the algorithm in 2017 by running my time to zero on a game I was about to resign, when I had zero vacation days left in late December, and as I predicted, I went to negative one vacation days.  (I then resigned the game).

  • Ray Garrison ★ at 2019-03-31

    one of my games is showing -22 hours for my opponent

  • Azusa at 2019-04-01

    -55 hrs here

  • Nagy Fathy ★ at 2020-07-16


  • shyryan ★ at 2020-07-16

    Is it protocol to just come to this thread and announce that the problem has returned?

  • Lazy Twits at 2020-07-16


  • taykay at 2020-07-16

    -71 hours

  • opmp at 2021-01-03


  • opmp at 2021-01-06


  • metzgerism at 2021-01-06

    got a few:

  • opmp at 2021-01-13


  • metzgerism at 2021-01-13

  • Jonny at 2021-11-23


  • William Fraser at 2022-03-26


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