Solfaremi in the middle TWIXT PP

16 replies. Last post: 2020-02-10

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Solfaremi in the middle
  • David J Bush ★ at 2020-02-07

    In the user tournament 

    https://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/tournament/tournament.jsp?trnid=ut.twixt.1166.1.1

    Solfaremi is copying my moves against him to his moves against Maciej, and vice versa, in both games. I am prepared to delay my responses for 30 days until he uses up his last vacation day against Maciej, but still it’s a hassle I hope to avoid. I messaged Richard about it. Anyway everyone, heads up about solfaremi.

  • ypercube at 2020-02-07

    I will contact him. Solfaremi I mean. 

  • KPT ★ at 2020-02-07

    That’s genius haha.too much work thou...
    Maybe he is just using your knowledge as a learning experience? 
    BTW: HOW DO U NOTICED THIS???

  • SOLFAREMI at 2020-02-08

    I apologise.

    Thanks to ypercube for letting me know that this was considered as a very bad practice.

    People who know me in real life (like ypercube) know that I am a very fair-play player.

    As KPT says, it took this as a learning experience: it was interesting for me to try

    to find a move and then compare to what the 2 best players in the tournament would play.

    Also, this way, I wouldn’t be crushed in the first few moves, as is often the case

    in this game. I didn’t mean to use my vacation days (I never used them and even thought

    you couldn’t use them during a tournament).

    Though being an abstract game expert, I still have many things to learn about Twixt.

    For example, I don’t even know which first moves I should swap or not? Any hint about that?

    Have you any websites to advise me to learn more about Twixt?

    I hope David and Maciej will play in many other Abstract Game League tournaments

    where they could learn something from my playing experience.

    http://www.tavolando.net/AGL_2020_en.html

    I played my moves now, but don’t try to copy me! :-)

  • David J Bush ★ at 2020-02-08

    IMO it’s your responsibility to avoid copying us, not the other way around.

  • SOLFAREMI at 2020-02-08

    Maybe you didn’t  notice the smiley at the end of my previous message? :-)

  • ypercube at 2020-02-08

    Thank you Solfaremi.

    David, technically the man-in-the-middle attack can also be perfomed by two (weak) players against two or the same (strong) player.

  • MisterCat ★ at 2020-02-08

    Holy cow!  I am so reluctant to speak up, since getting involved in a forum discourse regarding what can easily be a ‘heated’ topic is SO NOT MY THING.  Sorry.  I am not drunk now, so this is the ‘real me’ reacting, and find that I can not stay silent.  Personally, I am HORRIFIED, DISGUSTED, and QUITE SADDENED at this incident.  I’ve been mulling over this response for this past day.  This is CHEATING, plain and simple, and every bit as bad as folks that use computers to cheat (at games such as Chess), and I do not, for one minute, buy the ‘excuse’ or weak attempt at ‘humor’ that Solfaremi offers above.  In the world of tournament Chess nowadays, cheaters are BANNED FOR LIFE.  Personally, I think that should happen here.  Furthermore, I really wish that Richard could install some software to the site that can check for this – monitor the moves of different games and flag instances where moves are repeated in this way.  No longer can Twixt players hope to remain free of these cheating a*s*o*e* who have ruined many (most?) other games of pure strategy.

    The world of tournament Chess has been severely hampered by cheaters after money prizes, but what we have here at Little Golem are creeps who can’t even USE their desperation for money as a sad excuse; there ARE NO PRIZES.  You get to see your name on a list when you win something, and get to watch your rating at this site go up.  Big f*c*i*n* deal!  That means, these cheaters -  (and this is NOT new here – cheating has been going on at LG since WAY before I became a member – just scroll back though the oldest Forum discussions) - they do it for some PERVERTED EGO BOOST, or some kind of CHILDISH SOUR GRAPES – if THEY can’t have it, then nobody else can!  Arguably, this is even WORSE than the money lure, since it demonstrates pure psychosis.  At the very least, Solfaremi should resign all Twixt games in that tournament, and should EXIT THE TOURNAMENT, or be expelled.  But I leave that resolution to the tournament director.

    I am reluctant to even put my (meow) on this, since this type of post is not my style, and certainly not why I am at LG.  But -

    (meow)



  • KPT ★ at 2020-02-08

    @MisterCat i get your point, but i disagree. 
    Solfaremi did say that was for “learning purpose” What if this is TRUE?Also, we cannot asure that he was COPING MOVES (despite he already recognized it) The fact that there is No money or prizes involved make stronger the learning theory.
    Even myself has think about doing this in other games to learn, but i’m too lazy.
    We could agree that it could be a little unethical to do it in a tournament.
    Cheers


  • MisterCat ★ at 2020-02-08

    KPT, you are welcome to disagree,  I hear you.  I point out that the game cited DID occur in a tournament, and therefor the action taken will have a negative impact in screwing with the results in that tournament (‘Abstract Games League’).  Other players entered in good faith, expecting fair games.  If Solfaremi wants lessons in Twixt, he is free to approach the membership at large of LG in a post, and propose playing unrated, private ‘skittles’ games where moves are commented and advice is given.  But he did not do that, did he ???

    Thanks for disagreeing politely.  I’m just too old for flame wars.

    (meow)


  • David J Bush ★ at 2020-02-08

    Of course I don’t know why Solfaremi did what he did, but I can accept that he didn’t realize the depth of the problems he was creating. Twixt is such a fast game, if this had continued much longer either Maciej or I might have been facing a losing position. If the intention was to learn, the opening moves are not the best place to start. Tactics are better:

    http://www.ibiblio.org/twixtpuzzles/

  • David J Bush ★ at 2020-02-08

    Besides the four games solfaremi is playing against Maciej and myself, there are also the two games we are playing against each other. One of them is close but not quite the same as the solfaremi game. The pegs in the upper right are shifted diagonally one unit. Maciej knows full well how to take advantage of this difference.

    But the other game, 2145469 Maciej vs solfaremi is identical to 2145461 Maciej vs me, except our game is two moves earlier. Maciej hasn’t yet played T18 against me. He is working hard on possible alternatives, but IMO he shouldn’t have to.

    Solfaremi came up with S15 all by himself. It’s a reasonable move. If Maciej does play T18, I don’t necessarily have to answer S15 right away but I might have to later. So these games might become identical again by transposition. That’s an additional burden for us to deal with.

    That’s what I was referring to when I said it’s on Solfaremi to avoid copying us, not the other way around. One way he could demonstrate his sincerity and help fix the mess he made would be to resign 2145469 when his turn comes around again. Just a suggestion.

  • KPT ★ at 2020-02-08

    resignation is the way.its called fair play.

    you guys are right. 

  • SOLFAREMI at 2020-02-09

    I hadn’t looked to this forum for 24 hours, thinking the problem was over,

    but I discover now that it’s even worse than I thought it was.

    Apologies again to everyone who might have felt offended.

    First of all, let me tell you that I have been competing over the board

    in various mind sports for more than 35 years now and I can tell

    you that noone ever accused me to be a cheater!

    To prove my good faith, I’m ready to resigne the 2 games vs. David and the 2 vs. Maciej.

    However, as my aim is to learn more about the game, if possible,

    I would like to go on the games. If, by extraordinary, I would reach

    a winning position, I promise I will resign (and if I don’t do it,

    then, and only then, you can treat me of being a cheater or whatever

    and you can ban me from this site forever).

    After what David wrote, I understand that continuing our games

    might affect the games between David and Maciek.

    I trust David to tell me finally what I should do:

    which one(s) of the 4 games I must resign immediately

    and which ones I can go on playing (and resigning later if necessary).

    Sorry again for all that mess.





  • David J Bush ★ at 2020-02-09

    Oh! I sent you a message before reading this. Up to me is it? Your games with me have diverged enough that we could keep playing. But I recommend you resign both your games with Maciej, and please tell him of your intention to do so. Thank you.

  • Maciej Celuch at 2020-02-10

    SOLFAREMI admitted to his fault and will not do it anymore so I’m fine with that, no resign needed.

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