Following the discussion of the earlier topic - here is the position:

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=122277&nmove=20

As far as I can see (that's pretty close I admit :( ) b has chosen to divide a possible w left side and the result is one weak white and two weak black groups.

Now white plays H10 and black answered E16.

Is there a harder attack against the upper left corner? What happens after b: D17 or E17?

(Can someone help me and link the position in this topic - I can't HTML)

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=122277&nmove=20

Maybe no one is interested - one more try. :)

A research at http://gobase.org

with the pattern W: D17 + G17 B: C15 + F15 + F12

had 31 hits.

In the corner were played by black - C17 and D16 and E16 (with fast deviation from the game).

i haven't had a chance to study your suggested sequence, but i hope some advanced players will chime in and participate in this discussion. have you asked either kspark or Sorin Gherman if they would be interested in commenting on the game? if not them, are there any other dan or low kyu level players who might be interested in reviewing the game?

I did ask both players, if they admit to this way of discussion. They agreed - otherwise I wouldn't have started this.

I'm about 11k* on IGS - so it's clear I my go knowledge is at least 140 points/game beyond both of the players. But I believe it's possible to learn from discussions at any level. So my hope is that stronger AND weaker players than I am post thoughts about this or other positions. I'm absolutely shure, that I can learn from that. But this does mean, to post errors here. Experience is the result of our errors, isn't it? ;)

I don't know much, but seems too early to start a fight in the corner

I just see them setting up moves normally for bigger fights later

okay Jupp, i will take a stab at this…

i am not sure what you mean by a “harder” attack, but the sequence that was played seemed natural enough to me. black protects C15 from being cut off while threatening D17. White connects with E17 and black jumps out with H15.

while black is still open to a push by D12, i agree with Dennis that these are issues for later.

instead of black E17, i don't see what could have happened that would have been better. i might have tried C17, but looking at it closely now, i can see that E17 is much better. would D16 have been better? it seems like it would have been less threatening to D17, but i am not sure where that might have lead.

I think there is a Go proverb that says something like 'first strenghten your positions then attack your opponent's weak groups' (should try to apply this to my games, someday…)

C15, F15 and F12 stones are too thin to attack anything and White can probably cut them and help his central group (maybe wD15, wE14 … ?).

So in my opinion, in this sequence (bE16, wE17, bH15) Black is looking for connection and eye shape in sente before trying to put pressure on the central weak white group.

E16 does nicely that job.

Then bH15, bG5 and bI5 are similar moves, giving Black shape while keeping White groups separated and remotely attacking the center.

I appreciate Black's wiseness and patience in this sequence.

Much to learn for us poor double digit kyus :)

i liked the next sequence of moves from 24-34 where black and white each attack and squeeze the two weak groups in the middle of the left side. both sides are trying to run out to a safe area but do so attacking the whole way out. i can't tell who came out ahead, it looks like both sides had good successes here.

another exciting sequence begins at white's invasion into the lower right at p3:

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/game/game.jsp?gid=122277&nmove=56

this puts pressure on black's middle group. black's return invasion into white's lower left starts to get very heated. a major ko fight breaks out. any comments from the more advanced players to help us understand this battle better?