Infinite tournaments - some basic info - and a question? Go forum
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Sighris at 2016-05-08
mmKALLL ★ wrote:
The basic idea of the infinite tournament is that every few weeks, you start a match with an opponent who has a similar score. It’s essentially an infinite swiss-style tournament, and a good way to get a steady stream of games.
To begin from the leftmost column: There is the list of players, with their rating and number of games played, as well as points from the games (2 per win, 1 per draw, 0 per loss). The next column has the score; a large number representing their current score in the tournament, and a smaller one representing their all-time best. What follows is a list of games, with each game telling the placement and score of the player in the tournament at the time of the match.
The infinite Toroidal-Go (11x11 sized board) results are recorded here: http://littlegolem.net/jsp/in/tournament.jsp?trnid=go19.in.TOROID
What does the [40 P 33 G] under my name mean?
mmKALLL at 2016-05-08
I would assume that it means that you have played 33 games, and have 40 points from them; in other words, 20 wins. Looking at the table, it seems like this assumption is correct.
Rex Moore at 2016-05-09
At what point is a winner declared in an infinite tournament? For instance, in Go 19x19 “sspring” is listed as the winner, but gamesorry has been in first place for every round showing... from rounds 1 – 40.
mmKALLL at 2016-05-09
I haven’t stumbled upon that page before; I can only guess that such a “winner” was declared or is being declared based on an old system of counting the scores. It is worth noting though, that gamesorry’s only loss has been against sspring. Either way, I find that very odd and personally only care about the current leaderboard’s status.
Rex Moore at 2016-05-09
Thank you, mmKALLL. You’ve taught me more about infinite tournaments than I ever knew!
The only thing I don’t understand is matching "with an opponent who has a similar score". That seems a built-in mechanism to depress stronger players' scores.
At any rate, I’m surprised and humbled to be leading both the TZAAR and Catchup infinite tournaments.
mmKALLL at 2016-05-09
The idea of swiss style tournaments is that the top players are clearly identified. It is similar to the Elo rating, where you get more points for winning against stronger opponents, less for winning against weaker ones. It is important to realize that a victory (under the current EMA system) awards the same amount of points in the Infinity tournament regardless of opponent, but since your pairings are against stronger opponents as your score increases, the points gained by the top players are “worth” more relative to points gained by weaker players.
Under these systems, from a given group of players with similar scores or ratings but not necessarily the same skill levels, the players with an underestimated rating will likely advance to a pool of stronger players while increasing their score. If it turns out that their victories were due to fluctuation and not actual greater playing strength, they will quickly drop back down when faced with players whose scores more accurately reflect their ability.
The point of many rating systems is that (in theory) it should not matter who you play against: the score will increase less if you have a high winning probability against a particular opponent. Thus, over the course of many games against players of any skill levels, each player’s rating will (in theory) accurately reflect their actual playing capability. This is also the case in the Infinity tournament, where the strong players will inevitably gather more victories relative to weaker players. However, the games are more interesting due to the matches being against similarly skilled opponents, rather than random ones.
Rex Moore at 2016-05-18
mmKALLL (or anyone):
- Do you know how the score is calculated? I notice that even as I keep winning, my score goes up and down.
- Why are “points” calculated and shown if they don’t make a difference in the standings?
gamesorry at 2016-05-19
I think the current mechanism of the infinity tournament is: you always earn points when you win a game, and lose points when you lose a game. The more your points are, the harder you can earn the points and the easier you can lose points (regardless of the strength/points of your opponents). The unfinished games are treated as a draw, which make your points converge to around 1000 eventually (if you have infinite number of unfinished games). When a game finishes, all points in and after this round are adjusted accordingly.
richyfourtytwo at 2016-05-19
One consequence is that if you have above 1000 points, a new game starting will lower your score. Just a bit if you are barely above 1000, quite significantly if you are close to 2000.
mmKALLL at 2016-05-19
And as for the second question, it’s nice to see how many games a player has played. Although perhaps a W/L/T list would be clearer; this way ties are properly distinguished at a glance.
The_Burglar at 2019-07-25
It’s never ending